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It's very obvious, that the one who wrote this article, did so not to consider the truth, but to smear the names of those who presented evidence for the Ark of Noah. Just look at how he presented the claim of Fernand Navarra. Navarra was a sucessful French "industrialist" who was now retired. Yet, in the article, before it speaks of him as an "industrialist", it states this first. (has been variously described as a "JUNK DEALER".
They really wanted to paint the picture of some guy who was driving a pickup truck and and throwing metal in the back, trying to make a buck. From the very beginning of this article, they wanted to diminish this mans character.
Yet now lets move on to their claim. Navarra stated he found a wood beam buried deep under the snow high up on Ararat and it was tested to 5,000 years of age.
Now the article stated, that one of the expedition members and his guides have said that Navarra purchased the wood from natives in town and carried it up the mountain himself.
The first thing I don't see here is the names of those who made that accusations. The second thing I don't see here, is the name of the town where he supposedly made the purchase. And the third thing we are not given, is the name of the person who supposedly sold the wood to Navarra. And then we are told that Navarra carried the wood up the mountain, (HIMSELF). And of course, the article failed to mention, that the wood he supposedly carried up the mountian Himself, was a petrified wooden beam that was 9 inches by 9 inches, and 5 feet long. How does an older retired man get a beam weighing around 200 pounds up a 14,000 foot mountain himself?
And then of course they go after the fadeing memory of old Ed Davis. Yet Ed told us he was in a cave on Ararat, and saw petrified wood from the Ark of Noah in that cave. Now in the year 2007, we have Turkish authorities with a team from Japan on Ararat. They find a cave, and inside the cave they find a petrified wooden structure that is 36 feet long, and 8 feet across. Of course, it would have to weigh thousands of pounds. And this petrified wood is in a place where no wood structure should be found. And finding it, only confirms the Ed Davis account. So now what are they going to tell us? Will they now accuse Navarra or Davis for hiding it there?
The stories of petrified wooden structures are being confirmed by recent discoveries. The empty accusations of others cannot be confirmed, because there is simply no names, or facts to back up such accounts. So if you want to base your beliefs on evidence found, your going to have to side with Ed Davis, and Fernand navarra. If you want to base your beliefs on nameless accusers. Well then, your beliefs will have to be based on accounts from the unknown.
Obviously you just REFUSE to see the facts. If you had really done your research, you would have gone to the other linked article written in 1993 about it as well. There have been no recent confirmations of anything, in fact all that has been done is to prove these accounts, including the one by the pilot you mention in the other article i posted was a hoax as well. You are using the weak attempt to try to show the article false by saying no names were mentioned instead of the facts shown. Ed Davis and Fernand Navarra have changed their stories so many times it isnt even amusing anymore. Try again Campbell.
Around the year 1916 a Russian pilot saw the ark in a half frozen lake in a gully on Mt. Ararat. Story can be found on page 3 in the link below. It's titled, Expeditions Past: Lieutenant Roskovitsky
Thanks for the link. Although the word "lake" is described, has anyone in more modern times ever seen or photographed a lake on top of Mt. Ararat? I'm not talking about melt from snow and ice, but an actual lake. If the Ark was there as described, then why hasn't anyone else found it? There should be photos galore of such a thing.
The story on page 3 concludes that the reports of the investigation have never been seen or found. There's no trace of the photos. The courier who is claimed to have delivered the reports and photos was executed. All there is as proof is nothing but speculation, no evidence. For all anyone knows, the story could have been fabricated as an urban legend. As I said, don't you think if it were true, that plenty of people by now would have not only have seen it as well. But all that seems to be produced are a few pieces of petrified wood. Where's the rest of the Ark?
Obviously you just REFUSE to see the facts. If you had really done your research, you would have gone to the other linked article written in 1993 about it as well. There have been no recent confirmations of anything, in fact all that has been done is to prove these accounts, including the one by the pilot you mention in the other article i posted was a hoax as well. You are using the weak attempt to try to show the article false by saying no names were mentioned instead of the facts shown. Ed Davis and Fernand Navarra have changed their stories so many times it isnt even amusing anymore. Try again Campbell.
No other recent confirmations? So your ignoring the recent evidence uncovered on Ararat in 2007. And that 2007 expedition, confirmed what Ed Davis saw in the cave he was taken to on Ararat back in the 1940s. Do you just ignore such accounts?
Thanks for the link. Although the word "lake" is described, has anyone in more modern times ever seen or photographed a lake on top of Mt. Ararat? I'm not talking about melt from snow and ice, but an actual lake. If the Ark was there as described, then why hasn't anyone else found it? There should be photos galore of such a thing.
The story on page 3 concludes that the reports of the investigation have never been seen or found. There's no trace of the photos. The courier who is claimed to have delivered the reports and photos was executed. All there is as proof is nothing but speculation, no evidence. For all anyone knows, the story could have been fabricated as an urban legend. As I said, don't you think if it were true, that plenty of people by now would have not only have seen it as well. But all that seems to be produced are a few pieces of petrified wood. Where's the rest of the Ark?
I believe, there were two seperate accounts from two Russian who were part of the group that went to Ararat back in 1916. If I recall, both men were living somewhere in North America. Yet they both gave the same account of what was uncovered. I will try and locate their stories if I can. The lake, and the Ark is under 80 feet or more of ice. And only when we see three or four very hot summers in a row do we see the Ark, or the lake. Only during such a series of hot summers are such Ark sightings reported.
I believe this is the account I was speaking of. And I must say, this is quite an account of what they found up there. And many of the details match the Ed Davis account. http://www.noahsark.it/russian_expedition1.htm
Last edited by Campbell34; 10-28-2009 at 09:53 PM..
Total and complete failure....Here is the opening paragraph from your link. I highlighted the words you obviously ignored in red.
Russian Expedition - 1916-1917 A.D.
There is an enormous amount of material to digest
about the alleged Russian Expedition. In order to study this in an
organized manner, we will first look at the statements of those who claimed to be directly involved in the alleged expedition in chronological
order, then of those who claim to have second-hand knowledge of it
Total and complete failure....Here is the opening paragraph from your link. I highlighted the words you obviously ignored in red.
Russian Expedition - 1916-1917 A.D.
There is an enormous amount of material to digest
about the alleged Russian Expedition. In order to study this in an
organized manner, we will first look at the statements of those who claimed to be directly involved in the alleged expedition in chronological
order, then of those who claim to have second-hand knowledge of it
sanspeur, there are so many accounts from people who lived back in 1916. And eveyone of those accounts are pretty much telling us the same story about that Russian expedition. And it matters little where they find these people. Europe, America, Canada, ect. They all pretty much gave the same details of the account. Do you really believe they are all liars? Do you really believe these people all came together in the past only to fabricated the details of this story? And do you believe they then move to different places on the globe, only waiting for someone to finally ask them about their fabricated story? And do you believe they all did this, in order to push a lie? There would be no logic to such an arguement. And when the truth would be easier to believe, why would you believe in such a conspiracy?
Last edited by Campbell34; 10-29-2009 at 07:56 AM..
1. I'm wondering if you'll bother to answer the point-form issues I raised on two of my previous posts here. You even pasted my post but then didn't answer any of them.
2. As regards sanspeur's paste of the words from your link:
COVER EARS. YELL NAHNAHNHANHANHAH loudly. Tear out the offending pages or paragraphs. Stomp your foot. With feeling.
Of course what's missing here is an Ararat expedition by a credible and internationally recognized team. Now you've added in members from Hong Kong and the Turkish government. The video and Ertugrul's comments and the link provided does not mention that.
wood, or petrified wood, ≠ The Ark. simpler" Wood ≠ Ark. Desperate Frantic Hope ≠ Ark.
The quality and veracity of Etrugrul's so-called fact-finding tourist expedition is easily seen in the quality of his "special" video that you've already defended as "proof".
"My Summer Camping in The Turkish Mountains". That's all it was. It ranks as The Worst Documentary Evidenceever provided by anyone posting here. Ever.
Keep up the good work, Tom. And oh BTW, answer at least a few of those questions, willyah? Like:
Post #834, pg 84
Post #842, pg 85
Post #846, pg 85
(Well, of course I know; you can't... it's too terrifying. But isn't the intent of this forum to put forth and debate each person's questions? To answer them as best you can?
(Of course, Christian fundies can't answer these questions because if they did, honestly, it would point out the simple truth that their entire belief system is based on a fantasy, fairy-tale interpretation. Giant wooden barges ramming ashore on the top of a volcano, all on board surviving. Hee hee. )
Let's just say this: by your continued refusal to answer my (and others') simple point-form questions, you concede defeat in this debate.
Last edited by rifleman; 10-29-2009 at 08:04 AM..
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Typical!
