Cibolo WalMart (San Antonio, Schertz, Anton: sales, buying a house, neighborhoods)

[joe123456]

I have been following the news about the proposed Wal Mart in Cibolo. It amazes me that some City Council members try to tell the residents that there isn't anything they can do to stop Wal Mart from building. The fact is that Wal Mart won't build unless there is direct city support in either or combination of infrastructure improvements and economic incentives.

The city hasn't been well managed. You don't zone heavy commercial right next to subdivisions. They did it because they want sales tax revenues to grow city coffers. I talked to a Cibolo Council member two years ago, and he is still on the city council...I was told the city was desperately trying to court commercial development to take sales tax $s away from Schertz. So what happens, the next thing you know you have a 180K SF WalMart going up right next to an elementary school and subdivisions.

I also talked to a Schertz Council Member and the relationship between the two cities isn't good. His view is that Cibolo isn't being run by people that are competent. If I had my way, I would put up a referendum to dissolve the city of Cibolo and have it annexed by Schertz. Schertz has done a good job with development. The City there has common sense on putting heavy commercial across I-35 away from their main residential areas.

[justhefacts]

Wow, it continues to amaze me how un-informed the people truly are on the issues and how gullible they can be on hearsay information. I guess it really is true, if it is on the internet it has to be true...check the facts on the property in question. It was actually zoned heavy industrial since the 1990's and imagine that right across the street about 150 yards away is the Industrial Park which has been there since the 1970's. So there are numerous hazardous materials, trucks and other hazards just across the street from all of these homes and the school. How dare they put an Industrial Park so close to these homes...oh wait the park has been there since the 1970's...so how competent was the developer who decided to build houses and a school right next to all of these hazards knowing they existed. So was everyone who purchased one of these houses oblivious to their surroundings or was there some sort of cloaking device hiding the Industrial Park right across the street from them? So we blame the City for them buying a house in this location...shame on them for making such an uninformed decision. The City actually did everyone a favor by down grading the zoning from heavy industrial to commercial in 2010 otherwise you could have had a petroleum manufacturer right across the street from the school...and yes the school was built there knowing the zoning was industrial at the time...so where is the competence there?

Just a few weeks ago all of these residents were crying about how their homes were worthless because substandard construction. Now the homes are at the top of the market and are being devalued by Wal-Mart coming to town? Sounds like someone wants their cake and to eat it too!

So what incentives could the City possibly offer to Wal-Mart when they have nothing to give? Seriously look at the City budget which is posted online, there is no possible way the city could offer any incentive that would not be laughable to the a mega billion conglomerate like Wal-Mart. It is really nice for Schertz to sit back and collect all of the sales tax from the Cibolo residents, you would think they would rather contribute to their own economy rather than hand it over to the neighboring city. I guess that is why they call them one arm bandits, you sit on the stool and pull the arm until you have nothing left to give while Schertz waltz's off to the bank with their tax dollars.

If you look at the city budget and the tax info, a 1 cent increase on the tax rate is less than $140k to the City revenues. So to even purchase a firetruck they would have to raise the tax rate 5 cents. This is crazy to continue to put that burden on the residents to fund this infrastructure through taxes when a healthy retail base could easily support these needs instead of going to support the citizens of the neighboring city.

Ding Ding Ding...Round 1 is over...sounds like a TKO due to gross hyperbole and unsubstantiated facts!

[johnts71]

I thought Cibolo and Schertz were neighborhoods? they are actual cities? psssshhh :0

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by justhefacts

The City actually did everyone a favor by down grading the zoning from heavy industrial to commercial in 2010 otherwise you could have had a petroleum manufacturer right across the street from the school...and yes the school was built there knowing the zoning was industrial at the time...so where is the competence there?


So what incentives could the City possibly offer to Wal-Mart when they have nothing to give? Seriously look at the City budget which is posted online, there is no possible way the city could offer any incentive that would not be laughable to the a mega billion conglomerate like Wal-Mart.

Ding Ding Ding...Round 1 is over...sounds like a TKO due to gross hyperbole and unsubstantiated facts!

Yes, they did the residents a favor in 2010 when they were trying to get a big retail giant to take over the space. BS they should have zoned it for residential knowing that it was across an elementary school and a few hundred homes. If they changed it from industrial, they just as easily could have changed it to residential. Then again if it was industrial, why in the world were people living on it? There were homes on it until the city tried to find big commercial to come in. If the city had any sense it could have been a nice field for parks. If a bond measure was put up to purchase the land to build ball parks, I guarantee it would pass!

Incentives....the city is selling out, walmart doesn't build unless it pushes a little city like Cibolo that is desperate of sales tax dollars to grow its city government. In fact if you go back and read through the city meeting minutes, the city gave almost $60K just to get a Sonic built. If they offered $60K for a Sonic what do you think they would offer Walmart? I gurantee you Walmart is going to get some of those sales tax revenues the city wants. Once they are done, Walmart is known to move on and go to the next city leaving behind a carcass of a building.

My opinion....if Walmart wants to build, fine but with ZERO support from the city. That means all infrastructure is paid by them and all tax revenue goes to the city. Is that the deal....absolutely not. In fact the city council meets behind closed doors to talk about incentives. POOR planing on the part of Cibolo. Schertz is laughing at our city government. They are a better run municipality, and it would be in the best interests of Cibolo residents to merge with Schertz. Our EMS is provided by them, sewer for commercial development on I35 etc. Cibolo ends up with 180sf box store right across the street from an elementary school...nice neighborhood that is the showcase of Cibolo is just about to have its home values tank.

[dpantle]

You're probably not going to have a Walmart in your location without a tax abatement from the city. Too many other neighboring cities so close to you within 5 miles or so on I-35.

Of course your city will go for this. Why push the burden of mandates the city must meet directly on to the homeowners when state tax rebates can do this. City mandates won't just disappear on their own, the city must provide certain services in order to adhere to it's own incorporation. Do you want to see your city property taxes grow exponentially to fund this?

I'm not sure what kind of funding you're talking about here that the city would give to Walmart other than tax abatement. And to suggest that Walmart would receive a portion of tax revenue. In what respect? Other than abatement (that would surely be offset 10 to 1 by sales tax rebates), what are you suggesting? Any tax revenue "sharing" would seem highly illegal.

Surely you could see development like this happening in a city like Cibolo, no?

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by dpantle

You're probably not going to have a Walmart in your location without a tax abatement from the city. Too many other neighboring cities so close to you within 5 miles or so on I-35.

You are absolutely right....Walmart won't move in without a tax abatement from the city. Tax abatements are an economic development tool available to cities, counties and special districts to attract new industries and to encourage the retention and development of existing businesses through property tax exemptions or reductions.

So you have city council that is working to negotiate incentives with walmart, to build in an area where it is going to significantly devalue home prices and bring traffic to an area that is right in the middle of the heart of the city. Schertz on the other hand puts their wal mart on the otherside of I35 away from their residential area. Any decently run city recognizes the basics of city planning.....separate your commercial/industrial zones away from your residential areas. Bad planning on the part of city government. Cibolo is just a poorly run city.

[joe123456]

A good analysis on how big box retailers skim your sales tax $s.


http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/d...f/skimming.pdf

[TXEX06]

There are Wally World's directly next to and across from neighbourhoods and schools all over this city. What's makes Cibolo different? Good luck getting nice parks with urban sprawl, parks don't make money.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by dpantle

Surely you could see development like this happening in a city like Cibolo, no?

Absolutely SMART development can happen. You push your industrial and major retail areas toward I-10 and draw a line in the sand on where that is located. City passes a bond measure to build the roads to connect I-35 to I-10 and make it a major thoroughfare. That is how you plan for economic development. It's not rocket science to have a vision on how to grow smartly. Most well run cities I have lived in draw a line in the sand on where major commercial/industrial areas are located, and it is away from your residential areas.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by TXEX06

There are Wally World's directly next to and across from neighbourhoods and schools all over this city. What's makes Cibolo different? Good luck getting nice parks with urban sprawl, parks don't make money.

That's why people live in Cibolo to get away from the urban sprawl and poor city planning. Just need to find a way to elect people in office that actually have an idea on how to grow smartly. You don't have to look far and see that there are good city govts out there, and San Antonio isn't one of them.