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Couldn't you say the same thing about any other large production builder? Look at Pulte - you can tell that all their homes are the same basic design and have a definite "Pulte" signature look. Same goes for McMillian (formely Gordon Hartman. The primary difference between low end and high end is typically the finish out. Granted the product line that has now been discontinued has MUCH more architectural detailing giving more of an upscale feel - but still - the difference is in the details. I would say that the new Quarry line has more in common with Coblestone/Saddle Mountain than with the other existing Hallmark communities based on the elevations and brick/stone combinations.
Ultimately it is the intangibles that make the Quarry and other builders nicer communities nicer than the mainstream offerings...bigger lots, better elevations and higher end interior features. On all those fronts - the Quarry delievers. Also The Quarry offers three car garages...do any of the Hallmark communities offer this feature?
Since you are clearly satisfied with your Hallmark home I was wondering how long you have lived there? What community are you in? Have you had any problems or quality issues arise?
You asked about quality issues, none to date. That because I spent a month watching my home being built during critical stages. When I had bamboo installed, and 35 year laminate installed the floor contractor told me I had an excellent floor. It took a lot of work to get it that way. i had at least three pieces of OSB flooring removed and replaced not to mention a few areas that they had to fix squeks. Now that I have laminate installed over 1/4 plywood, self leveling concrete, and the standard OSB, my floor is way more solid than carpet over OSB.
I spent tons of time walking my home to make sure it exceeded specifications i.e. close brick ties every 16", concrete tested by independent company, ring shank nails for the brick ties, hurricane ties, bearing plates for my anchor bolts, simpson plates at my gables no toe nailing, boric acid exterior walls, etc etc.
I went above and beyond. But I plan on keeping the home. Not to mention I paid for all of the extras I got. No freebies.
Dovetailed drawers are a method of construction to build drawer boxes. Much stronger than a mechanical fastener and not available on any KB house below the Estate/Liberty line that they no longer build. It is proof that contrary to popular opinion - there are differences in the cabinet quality in the upper line KB houses.
I meant to ask you the other day...they Zone Hallmark homes? I initially looked at Saddle Mountain (which is a step or two up from the Hallmark line) and they do not do zoned units. They offer multiple return air ducts for each floor - but only one thermostat. Infact I asked specifically about having dampers put in with two thermostats in the (now discontinued 3106 - Alamo floor plan in Saddle Mountain) and KB told me that they only installed multiple return air lines but not thermostatically controlled dampers in anything below the Quarry. So my question to you is do you have dampers and multiple thermostats? If so - what neighborhood are you in?
Banker,
I forgot to answer your above question. I had my home zoned after I moved in. However I did run the thermostat wires etc. so that it would be alot easier to do after I moved in. I have two touch screen honeywell thermostats installed to dampers and a fresh air duct damper run to my air return. I provided all the materials and had it installed after I closed. The fresh air damper is a must. My thermostats also control for humidity and they also optimize fresh air into the home. The HVAC guy told me its the smartest thing you can do. My first months electric bill was only $120 and I keep my tempture settings at 70-75 on both floors.
Ask KB if they are providing you a variable speed air handler? If not, it would be worth the money to get one. The fan will continue to run after the heatpump is off, and if you have the right setup it help control the humidity. I will probably add a couple of UV lights to my setup. It will be easy to do because I added an outlet in the blower closet.
So you built in Springtree. This is a nice community - but you must admit - the primary reason that the home was so inexspensive was due to the location. I would wager the same house you built would have had a higher base price had you built in Fox Grove or Stage Run - which are essentially the same type of community because these are both in more expensive areas of town. Anything outside Bexar County up IH35 is much cheaper due to the location. It also isn't nearly as nice in terms of the average neighborhood when compared to North Central SA. This isn't to say it isn't nice (I have lots of friends that live very close to you) it is that you just won't find the caliber of neighborhoods that you will find in the North Central (281) area. So - while you may have made extensive upgrades to your house you are not surrounded by communities much less neighbors that are at the same quality/feature level. Sadly this means that when/if you go to sell your home you will not get back your investment in all your numerous upgrades. That is fine if you don't plan on selling - because you have built it for you - and ultimately that is all that matters.
The zoned/damper system is smart - glad to hear they let you run the wiring so you could add that later. But as you stated...that isn't standard - not even available in fact. And you are probably the only person in your neighborhood that has that set up. I am actually having a zoned system put in my single story house. I will have three zones / two for downstairs and one for the bonus room upstairs. I have multiple return air lines - all mounted in the ceiling and will have the variable speed interior air handler. This is all done by KB - not behind their backs as you did. In addition - my A/C is in the attic - not a closet. Another custom touch that is not common in the more boxy style homes built in most KB communities. These are just a couple more feature that demonstrates that the Liberty / Estate line is a step above the normal KB houses and proof they can compete with the semi-custom builders.
But as you have found - the quality is excellent. It is the current housing market and legacy KB reputation that hurt the sales of the expensive KB line - not the product. The product they build is absolutely fabulous. The Astor house you so disliked was optioned for a particular person. That person must have wanted all the features you saw. Had they wanted stone or porcelin tile they could have had it. So - it isn't quite right to criticize KB for the way the house was finished out. They build them to order - and unfortunately some people cancel for one reason or another. I am sure there are features about our house that some might question - but that is fine because I don't plan on backing out.
The A/C system that you worked to create (that my house came with standard), the attic mount of my A/C system, the upgraded 30 year architectural shingles, the width of the home at 60 feet, The architectural design (not a box) of my home, the three car garage, the standard sprinkler system, the standard tile throughout the home, the standard interior trim, the pebble finish on the driveway and sidewalks, the standard four sides brick with limestone accents...I could go on and on...these are all features that add cost and complexity during the build...not to mention the expensive dirt! So - I say all this - not to put down yours or anyone elses home - but to give credibility to the value of the semi custom Estate/Liberty line of houses built in the Quarry. Quite frankly I am surprised that KB didn't sell these houses out the first year the neighborhood was developed.
I am sorry that you didn't like the Quarry product - both what they built over the past two years and their new product just coming on line - but I wouldn't be so quick to slam their effort after seeing one inventory home and the new model. The overall feel of the Quarry neighborhood is unique and I would argue nicer than any other KB community in San Antonio. The new product will detract from the existing feel a little bit - but not much as over half the lots have already been sold with the higher end product.
You asked about quality issues, none to date. That because I spent a month watching my home being built during critical stages. When I had bamboo installed, and 35 year laminate installed the floor contractor told me I had an excellent floor. It took a lot of work to get it that way. i had at least three pieces of OSB flooring removed and replaced not to mention a few areas that they had to fix squeks. Now that I have laminate installed over 1/4 plywood, self leveling concrete, and the standard OSB, my floor is way more solid than carpet over OSB.
I spent tons of time walking my home to make sure it exceeded specifications i.e. close brick ties every 16", concrete tested by independent company, ring shank nails for the brick ties, hurricane ties, bearing plates for my anchor bolts, simpson plates at my gables no toe nailing, boric acid exterior walls, etc etc.
I went above and beyond. But I plan on keeping the home. Not to mention I paid for all of the extras I got. No freebies.
Sounds like we have one thing in common...I visit my homesite nearly every day and have been in constant contact with my construction manager. I have asked for many of the things you have asked...although some were standard and I didn't ahve to ask for them. I believe that no matter what community and what builder it is the eye for quality that your construction manager and home owner have that will ultimately determine the end result.
You asked about quality issues, none to date. That because I spent a month watching my home being built during critical stages. When I had bamboo installed, and 35 year laminate installed the floor contractor told me I had an excellent floor. It took a lot of work to get it that way. i had at least three pieces of OSB flooring removed and replaced not to mention a few areas that they had to fix squeks. Now that I have laminate installed over 1/4 plywood, self leveling concrete, and the standard OSB, my floor is way more solid than carpet over OSB.
I spent tons of time walking my home to make sure it exceeded specifications i.e. close brick ties every 16", concrete tested by independent company, ring shank nails for the brick ties, hurricane ties, bearing plates for my anchor bolts, simpson plates at my gables no toe nailing, boric acid exterior walls, etc etc.
I went above and beyond. But I plan on keeping the home. Not to mention I paid for all of the extras I got. No freebies.
You didn't address the intangibles mentioned by DilbertinSA. It is those features that also contribute to the pricing difference you have noted.
So you built in Springtree. This is a nice community - but you must admit - the primary reason that the home was so inexspensive was due to the location. I would wager the same house you built would have had a higher base price had you built in Fox Grove or Stage Run - which are essentially the same type of community because these are both in more expensive areas of town. Anything outside Bexar County up IH35 is much cheaper due to the location. It also isn't nearly as nice in terms of the average neighborhood when compared to North Central SA. This isn't to say it isn't nice (I have lots of friends that live very close to you) it is that you just won't find the caliber of neighborhoods that you will find in the North Central (281) area. So - while you may have made extensive upgrades to your house you are not surrounded by communities much less neighbors that are at the same quality/feature level. Sadly this means that when/if you go to sell your home you will not get back your investment in all your numerous upgrades. That is fine if you don't plan on selling - because you have built it for you - and ultimately that is all that matters.
The zoned/damper system is smart - glad to hear they let you run the wiring so you could add that later. But as you stated...that isn't standard - not even available in fact. And you are probably the only person in your neighborhood that has that set up. I am actually having a zoned system put in my single story house. I will have three zones / two for downstairs and one for the bonus room upstairs. I have multiple return air lines - all mounted in the ceiling and will have the variable speed interior air handler. This is all done by KB - not behind their backs as you did. In addition - my A/C is in the attic - not a closet. Another custom touch that is not common in the more boxy style homes built in most KB communities. These are just a couple more feature that demonstrates that the Liberty / Estate line is a step above the normal KB houses and proof they can compete with the semi-custom builders.
But as you have found - the quality is excellent. It is the current housing market and legacy KB reputation that hurt the sales of the expensive KB line - not the product. The product they build is absolutely fabulous. The Astor house you so disliked was optioned for a particular person. That person must have wanted all the features you saw. Had they wanted stone or porcelin tile they could have had it. So - it isn't quite right to criticize KB for the way the house was finished out. They build them to order - and unfortunately some people cancel for one reason or another. I am sure there are features about our house that some might question - but that is fine because I don't plan on backing out.
The A/C system that you worked to create (that my house came with standard), the attic mount of my A/C system, the upgraded 30 year architectural shingles, the width of the home at 60 feet, The architectural design (not a box) of my home, the three car garage, the standard sprinkler system, the standard tile throughout the home, the standard interior trim, the pebble finish on the driveway and sidewalks, the standard four sides brick with limestone accents...I could go on and on...these are all features that add cost and complexity during the build...not to mention the expensive dirt! So - I say all this - not to put down yours or anyone elses home - but to give credibility to the value of the semi custom Estate/Liberty line of houses built in the Quarry. Quite frankly I am surprised that KB didn't sell these houses out the first year the neighborhood was developed.
I am sorry that you didn't like the Quarry product - both what they built over the past two years and their new product just coming on line - but I wouldn't be so quick to slam their effort after seeing one inventory home and the new model. The overall feel of the Quarry neighborhood is unique and I would argue nicer than any other KB community in San Antonio. The new product will detract from the existing feel a little bit - but not much as over half the lots have already been sold with the higher end product.
Good to know that things are going well on your build. Yep, location is something that definitely makes a huge difference in cost. I personally prefer Cibolo over the North Central side of town. I looked there before I decided on Cibolo. I didn't like the area because of the very congested traffic, higher taxes, and for me it was further away from work.
It's great to hear that you are so far satisfied with your build. You are also right in that I probably have the only home in the subdivision with a zoned hvac system, not to mention fiberoptics, and many more things that are semi-custom touches. It was a difficult process but worth it in the end.
Although KB did provide you many standard HVAC upgrades, depending on SF of your home..anything over 2500sf...should probably have two A/C units. Medallion does a good job there. It's more energy effecient to have two units for a large home than a zoned system. I wanted two HVAC units, but had to settle on putting some thermostat wire in the wall. However, the system that I installed is working great.
It also sounds like you have a natural gas furnace, since your A/C is installed in your attic. Natural gas does a better job of heating the home, however in San Antonio you might be paying more. Electricity is pretty cheap and natural gas is pretty expensive today.
Before you know it your home will be finished. Good luck with the rest of your build process.
Good to know that things are going well on your build. Yep, location is something that definitely makes a huge difference in cost. I personally prefer Cibolo over the North Central side of town. I looked there before I decided on Cibolo. I didn't like the area because of the very congested traffic, higher taxes, and for me it was further away from work.
It's great to hear that you are so far satisfied with your build. You are also right in that I probably have the only home in the subdivision with a zoned hvac system, not to mention fiberoptics, and many more things that are semi-custom touches. It was a difficult process but worth it in the end.
Although KB did provide you many standard HVAC upgrades, depending on SF of your home..anything over 2500sf...should probably have two A/C units. Medallion does a good job there. It's more energy effecient to have two units for a large home than a zoned system. I wanted two HVAC units, but had to settle on putting some thermostat wire in the wall. However, the system that I installed is working great.
It also sounds like you have a natural gas furnace, since your A/C is installed in your attic. Natural gas does a better job of heating the home, however in San Antonio you might be paying more. Electricity is pretty cheap and natural gas is pretty expensive today.
Before you know it your home will be finished. Good luck with the rest of your build process.
Do you have a heat pump or natural gas? I had natural gas in my previous house and know folks that have heat pumps. On really cold days - a heat pump really can't keep up. Since we use heat for such a small portion of the year - I am willing to pay a higher heating bill for the comfort it gives. I believe that all the homes in the Quarry have standard gas furnaces. In fact all the appliances are gas. We will have a gas dryer, water heater and stove. I prefer it over electricity.
The need for multiple A/C units is based on more than just square footage. Does the house have a Western Exposure, Radiant Barrier, double pane low-e windows and location of the unit within the home. A large home can work off one unit if it doesn't have a western exposure (ours doesn't), has the top level insulation and radiant barrier (ours does) and has a good location for the unit - which means being located in the center of the house in an attic so that the duct runs are even throughout the home and the home has ceiling mounted return air vents to efficiently pull the hot air out of the house (ours has all these features). In addition - our house is smaller than yours at around 3,100 square feet. We have a five ton unit and based on the cubic feet of cooled space and all the factors above - including the multiple zones - we should be good.
Do you have a heat pump or natural gas? I had natural gas in my previous house and know folks that have heat pumps. On really cold days - a heat pump really can't keep up. Since we use heat for such a small portion of the year - I am willing to pay a higher heating bill for the comfort it gives. I believe that all the homes in the Quarry have standard gas furnaces. In fact all the appliances are gas. We will have a gas dryer, water heater and stove. I prefer it over electricity.
The need for multiple A/C units is based on more than just square footage. Does the house have a Western Exposure, Radiant Barrier, double pane low-e windows and location of the unit within the home. A large home can work off one unit if it doesn't have a western exposure (ours doesn't), has the top level insulation and radiant barrier (ours does) and has a good location for the unit - which means being located in the center of the house in an attic so that the duct runs are even throughout the home and the home has ceiling mounted return air vents to efficiently pull the hot air out of the house (ours has all these features). In addition - our house is smaller than yours at around 3,100 square feet. We have a five ton unit and based on the cubic feet of cooled space and all the factors above - including the multiple zones - we should be good.
Everything you mentioned was right on with the HVAC system, but I was told it was also more economical to have two systems. Every time one of your three zones calls for A/C it will start up a 5 ton unit versus maybe 1 2 ton unit. This is why zones aren't the most effecient way to go. Whenever you can get two units instead of one for a large home, you are better off.
I moved into my home at the end of Jan. We had a few cold days 30 degrees, and I was very surprised at how well insulated my home was...barely used the heatpump. The home is very air tight. I made sure of it by going back over in a few areas where the HVAC guy missed filling in gaps with foam. In fact he missed a couple of corners between 2x4s. I must of used 6 cans of foam to make sure everything was airtight.
Everything you mentioned was right on with the HVAC system, but I was told it was also more economical to have two systems. Every time one of your three zones calls for A/C it will start up a 5 ton unit versus maybe 1 2 ton unit. This is why zones aren't the most effecient way to go. Whenever you can get two units instead of one for a large home, you are better off.
True. I would have preferred to have two units. One of the zones is for a bedroom/bath on the second floor that will rarely be used and we will keep it off most of the time. The other zones should run together most times - so I am hoping for some efficiency on that level.
I moved into my home at the end of Jan. We had a few cold days 30 degrees, and I was very surprised at how well insulated my home was...barely used the heatpump. The home is very air tight. I made sure of it by going back over in a few areas where the HVAC guy missed filling in gaps with foam. In fact he missed a couple of corners between 2x4s. I must of used 6 cans of foam to make sure everything was airtight.
Jan of 2008?
I have a co-worker that lives in the Quarry in their largest estate floor plan - at 3,800 square feet. I was shocked to find out that his heating bill was less than my 1,732 square foot home I have now sold...and that was with a soaring two story vaulted living room. KB really does make a tight house.
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