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Of course there are house poor people living everywhere. thats my point. We could have qualified for a house in the quarry but then we would have been strapped. Lenders will qualify people for houses they really can't afford. You say to each his own but put down any neighborhood that is not the quarry.
Please don't misunderstand my earlier statement about cheap touches - I was not referring to other neighborhoods in general but was having a discussion about other KB neighborhoods and how KB's Quarry Neighborhood has advantages other KB communities do not. There are lots of other very nice places to live besides the Quarry. And it sounds like you made a smart move for you and your family.
Please - no offense was intended. And you must admit (as must I) that my enthusiasm and top rate experience with KB and the Quarry lends me to be biased in my choice... After all I did start this thread after choosing this community over many others. You would expect me to back my decision with facts and bias!!!
Have you priced houses with pella windows? They cost a lot more than $400K...anyway. The windows aren't the same - exactly. In the Quarry and The Woods of Alon are standard tan windows which look much better even if they are from the same manufacturer.
1. The standard tan window in a Hallmark community is $145...I personally don't like tan because it doesn't give it contrast.
Front doors/9ft ceilings - yes the doors are the same - but it is all about standard features. In the Quarry I am guaranteed that all of my neighbors have at least the 9ft ceilings and nice entry doors. In their mid level homes you could have a neighbor that didn't select that upgrade and have eight foot ceilings and those types of cheap touches really hurt a neighborhood. So - while you can get the nine foot ceilings in other neighhorhoods - not all your neighbors will...thus you end up being on the high end in terms of upgrades.
2. Well I can't speak for neighbors, but my home has 9ft ceilings and it looks no different than the 350+ homes I looked at.
To each his own on the A/C issue. I for one like being in a neighborhood with homes engineered with proper A/C layouts. Again - this is something that will impact the entire neighborhood resale value.
3. KB is still cheap Medallion offers dual A/Cs at I believe it is at anything bigger than 2,400sf. KB at Saddle Mountain has for sale their model home at 340K with only one A/C and no dual zone climate control.
I wouldn't say their attempt to go semi-custom didn't go well. Did you see the street after street of high end $400-$500K homes? The national real estate market really hurt KB and many other builders. The change in product is an attempt to complete the neighborhood with cheaper to build homes that can be completed faster than the existing semi-custom homes like what I am having built. They were able to successfully market, build and sell very high end homes that are nothing like anything else KB has built in San Antonio since their 1996 aquisition of RAYCO.
4. I wouldn't pay 400K-500K for a home that has the same windows in their 150K offering. KB didn't have the supply chain lined up to get the return on getting the materials a discerning buyer is looking for.
The model you walked through was a Trails model...they don't have an Empire collection model at the Quarry but do at The Woods of Alon. And you are correct - they no longer offer tray/vaulted ceilings like in the old Liberty/Estate homes. This is a drawback and I agree that just the standard nine foot ceilings aren't nearly as nice. But they (KB) still has one thing not offered by a Hallmark line house - and that is an oversized three car garage. Why? Because the Hallmark target audience doesnt' expect that nor are the lots big enough to accomodate such a luxury. Which leads into your next point...the lot size. The Quarry's standard lot is larger than many upgraded lots in their other neightborhoods. The lot size was the biggest draw for us. If you go to Fox Grove, Stage Run, Cobblestone or even Saddle Mountain - you get that crammed in look that the Quarry avoids completely. I don't know how you can dismiss this so easily. Land is king. just having a large lot in a neighborhood full of small lots is meaningless. You are still left with that feeling of most of the homes being crammed in together. The Quarry has a spaciousness to it that no other KB community has offered - and this is due primarily to the generous STANDARD lot size. The lot size you quote is their smallest. Mine is 75 feet wide by 135 feet deep and on the small end - thers are wider and deeper than mine.
5. The 380K home I looked at was a spec home that they don't sale anymore. Yes, I also looked at there current offering model home which was designed no differently than my Hallmark. To include many of the same fixtures etc.
I believe their standard lot size is 70x135, so you got an extra five feet which is eat up by the third car garage.
The exterior is "a little nicer"...drive through any of the Hallmark neighborhoods and you will see that while they offer four sides brick (as an upgrade) they don't offer the high end brick selections that the Quarry does nor do they offer the stone option. Again - this is a huge value add that will keep the neighborhood from looking like some of RAYCO/KB's attempts at nice neighborhoods like Gold Canyon which has some horrid brick options...which sadly KB still offers...like grey and pink brick....who selects that anyway?
6. I believe you can get an all stone home in the Hallmark, just adds 15K-20K more to the price of the home.
Another plus in the Quarry is the standard sprinkler system - another feature that will help keep the community nicer in the long run without folks dragging unsightly hoses across the yard and leaving them there for weeks...
7. I talked to a drainage engineer and they typically don't recommend sprinklers. Maintenance problems just waiting to happen.
The element that The Quarry has that no other KB community will offer...is the type of buyer. Those that are spending $350-$500K on a home tend to be more discerning and have higher standards of up keep as well as more discretionary income needed to make updates and keep the neighborhood fresh over the long haul. This is not to put down other cheaper communities...but it is a stated fact. I know lots of folks that live in Hallmark homes and they are some of the best...but it does impact the over all feel of the community. (No haters due to this comment....please....)
8. I agree that you will get buyers that have more money, but doesn't necessarily make them better neighbors.
Finally - there are many many many standard interior features from fixtures to the size baseboards used in the Quarry that are not used in other communities. It is all the little details that make a house - and while you are correct - there are many similarities between the Hallmark and the cheaper Quarry line - the Trails (the Empire is the nicer of the Quarry lines and unrelated in any way to the Hallmark houses) it is the little details that come standard in the Quarry that set apart this community over the others. I would argue that knowing your neighbors didn't cheap out has value over the long haul.
9. I walked through on of the top of the line homes 380K, and it wasn't all that....12x12 ceramic tile kitchen, same cheap bathfans, some of the same light fixtures that are upgrade options in the hallmark, front door, etc etc.
I am glad you are happy with your home. I am happy with mine so far and can't wait to move in this summer. Best of luck to you. And by the way - I started this thread to highlight my experience with my home purchase. If you would like to detail your own experience feel free to start your own thread.
10. My point is that the homes really aren't that different...they build to code. Hallmark at 200K with 50K in direct upgrades with the guy that actually does trim and flooring will get you the same interior features at a significant savings.
If you can't get the trey ceilings and its just a 9ft ceiling or the structural details such as lighted niches, wood cased windows, etc....it is my opinion you can upgrade your Hallmark after you close to get more expensive features than the top of the line KB at a significant price difference. I know, because I have done it.
Also, being next to a quarry that blasts everyday at 4pm might cause you some tile problems later on. I talked to the owner of the tile company that does a lot of work for KB and other builders and he told me his home near the Quarry had tile cracking and he couldn't figure out why other than possibly the vibrations caused by the blasting...his floor was pristine.
I am not trying to take away from anyone's home, but take a critical look when you shop around. I can attest to KBs homes because I throughly researched them and watched mine being built. A KB Hallmark is a great deal for price per SF. Upgrade structurally, and if you plan on living in it for a long time spend out of pocket money to upgrade your home which can be done to get you a 380K KB top of the line feel at a bargain basement Hallmark price.
10. My point is that the homes really aren't that different...they build to code. Hallmark at 200K with 50K in direct upgrades with the guy that actually does trim and flooring will get you the same interior features at a significant savings.
If you can't get the trey ceilings and its just a 9ft ceiling or the structural details such as lighted niches, wood cased windows, etc....it is my opinion you can upgrade your Hallmark after you close to get more expensive features than the top of the line KB at a significant price difference. I know, because I have done it.
Also, being next to a quarry that blasts everyday at 4pm might cause you some tile problems later on. I talked to the owner of the tile company that does a lot of work for KB and other builders and he told me his home near the Quarry had tile cracking and he couldn't figure out why other than possibly the vibrations caused by the blasting...his floor was pristine.
I am not trying to take away from anyone's home, but take a critical look when you shop around. I can attest to KBs homes because I throughly researched them and watched mine being built. A KB Hallmark is a great deal for price per SF. Upgrade structurally, and if you plan on living in it for a long time spend out of pocket money to upgrade your home which can be done to get you a 380K KB top of the line feel at a bargain basement Hallmark price.
No doubt about the way you went about upgrading your home after the purchase. In fact that is excatly what we are doing. We opted for the now disontinued Liberty line because we wanted the larger lot, wider home and three car garage that the other communities didn't offer and will do upgrades like crown moulding and other interior upgrades later so they aren't on the mortgage or the tax base.
It sounds like you found what I found...the current KB homes are built well. What community are you in?
And having visited with people that live in the Quarry - the blasting isnt really an issue. And it is once per week - not every day.
10. My point is that the homes really aren't that different...they build to code. Hallmark at 200K with 50K in direct upgrades with the guy that actually does trim and flooring will get you the same interior features at a significant savings.
If you can't get the trey ceilings and its just a 9ft ceiling or the structural details such as lighted niches, wood cased windows, etc....it is my opinion you can upgrade your Hallmark after you close to get more expensive features than the top of the line KB at a significant price difference. I know, because I have done it.
Couldn't you say the same thing about any other large production builder? Look at Pulte - you can tell that all their homes are the same basic design and have a definite "Pulte" signature look. Same goes for McMillian (formely Gordon Hartman. The primary difference between low end and high end is typically the finish out. Granted the product line that has now been discontinued has MUCH more architectural detailing giving more of an upscale feel - but still - the difference is in the details. I would say that the new Quarry line has more in common with Coblestone/Saddle Mountain than with the other existing Hallmark communities based on the elevations and brick/stone combinations.
Ultimately it is the intangibles that make the Quarry and other builders nicer communities nicer than the mainstream offerings...bigger lots, better elevations and higher end interior features. On all those fronts - the Quarry delievers. Also The Quarry offers three car garages...do any of the Hallmark communities offer this feature?
Since you are clearly satisfied with your Hallmark home I was wondering how long you have lived there? What community are you in? Have you had any problems or quality issues arise?
Please don't misunderstand my earlier statement about cheap touches - I was not referring to other neighborhoods in general but was having a discussion about other KB neighborhoods and how KB's Quarry Neighborhood has advantages other KB communities do not. There are lots of other very nice places to live besides the Quarry. And it sounds like you made a smart move for you and your family.
Please - no offense was intended. And you must admit (as must I) that my enthusiasm and top rate experience with KB and the Quarry lends me to be biased in my choice... After all I did start this thread after choosing this community over many others. You would expect me to back my decision with facts and bias!!!
Banker - your comments make total sense. No need to apologize. Do you know if any of the new product has been started in the Quarry? I will be curious to see what your thoughts are on this new cheaper to build series once they start going up in the Quarry next to the much nicer custom or "semi-custom" type houses that are already built in there.
You can see an example of your cheap touches comment in the neighborhood across from the Quarry as it has both KB and Pulte homes built side by side. If you drive through the neighborhood (Iron Mountain Ranch I believe) the KB houses have beatuful eight foot glass doors while the Pulte has cheap looking (by comparison) seven foot solid wood or fiberglass doors. I wouldn't have thought any differently as my house has a seven foot door and until I saw the beautiful glass doors that are standard on KB's nicer communities and on the KB houses in Iron Mountain Ranch...I realized how "normal" a seven foot door looks. Having every house with the same standard entry door really dresses up the community.
While other posters have commented that you can get the beautiful doors on their cheaper houses/neighborhoods - they aren't standard. And that is a big deal. It is all about curb appeal...and those beautiful doors really do add something. I would want my neighbor to have the same quality door as me if I were building a new house.
Banker - your comments make total sense. No need to apologize. Do you know if any of the new product has been started in the Quarry? I will be curious to see what your thoughts are on this new cheaper to build series once they start going up in the Quarry next to the much nicer custom or "semi-custom" type houses that are already built in there.
You can see an example of your cheap touches comment in the neighborhood across from the Quarry as it has both KB and Pulte homes built side by side. If you drive through the neighborhood (Iron Mountain Ranch I believe) the KB houses have beatuful eight foot glass doors while the Pulte has cheap looking (by comparison) seven foot solid wood or fiberglass doors. I wouldn't have thought any differently as my house has a seven foot door and until I saw the beautiful glass doors that are standard on KB's nicer communities and on the KB houses in Iron Mountain Ranch...I realized how "normal" a seven foot door looks. Having every house with the same standard entry door really dresses up the community.
While other posters have commented that you can get the beautiful doors on their cheaper houses/neighborhoods - they aren't standard. And that is a big deal. It is all about curb appeal...and those beautiful doors really do add something. I would want my neighbor to have the same quality door as me if I were building a new house.
Thanks. I had had also noticed the difference between the Pulte and KB houses in Iron Mountain Ranch. It is amazing what a standard 8 foot door does to dress up an entry. I am glad that The Quarry has that standard on every house.
But anyway - back to the status of my construction... The brick is complete and the tile constractors are now up on deck. The interior is really coming along Here's hoping I am moved in by the end of May!!
4. 3000+ sf gets you another heatpump in their top of the line brands. With your Hallmark just get it zoned. Although not as effecient as two heatpumps, it still gets the job done.
I meant to ask you the other day...they Zone Hallmark homes? I initially looked at Saddle Mountain (which is a step or two up from the Hallmark line) and they do not do zoned units. They offer multiple return air ducts for each floor - but only one thermostat. Infact I asked specifically about having dampers put in with two thermostats in the (now discontinued 3106 - Alamo floor plan in Saddle Mountain) and KB told me that they only installed multiple return air lines but not thermostatically controlled dampers in anything below the Quarry. So my question to you is do you have dampers and multiple thermostats? If so - what neighborhood are you in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe123456
I wasn't impressed with the Quarry at that price point. $380K spec home I looked... when I compare it to the 204K home I bought about the same SF
That spec home is the now discontinued Astor floor plan with about 3,100 square feet with a large spacious 1st floor and a bonus bedroom/bath and loft upstairs. There is nothing in the hallmark line that has a floor plan that comes anywhere close to that layout. Just having the same square feet means nothing. As to the finish out - the estate line (which the Astor is) has fully boxed dovetailed drawers in the kitchen/bath cabinets which were not available on any KB home in any other community in San Antonio. From an architectural standpoint - the spec home you walked through avoids the big box look of most of KB product and has a higher standard finish out.
You are free to have your opinion - but to say that one 3,100 square foot house is the same as another just because they share similar dimensions is silly. The Astor is significantly more complext to build and has a significantly more detailed interior and exterior in terms of finish out. Sadly that spec house while on a cul-de-sac has a horrible back yard and since it is lacking a third car garage will be hard to sell.
I am sorry you don't like their high end product - but I am glad you are happy with your existing home. KB needs all the satisfied buyers they can get in this difficult real estate environment.
But I think you tip your hand when you compare square footage and not building complexity. You act as if KB is just charging more for the neighborhood but do not give credit for the complexity that these more detailed semi-custom homes have - which drive up both materials and labor costs from a construction standpoint.
Again - I would love to know what neighborhood you live in and how long you have owned your home.
I meant to ask you the other day...they Zone Hallmark homes? I initially looked at Saddle Mountain (which is a step or two up from the Hallmark line) and they do not do zoned units. They offer multiple return air ducts for each floor - but only one thermostat. Infact I asked specifically about having dampers put in with two thermostats in the (now discontinued 3106 - Alamo floor plan in Saddle Mountain) and KB told me that they only installed multiple return air lines but not thermostatically controlled dampers in anything below the Quarry. So my question to you is do you have dampers and multiple thermostats? If so - what neighborhood are you in?
That spec home is the now discontinued Astor floor plan with about 3,100 square feet with a large spacious 1st floor and a bonus bedroom/bath and loft upstairs. There is nothing in the hallmark line that has a floor plan that comes anywhere close to that layout. Just having the same square feet means nothing. As to the finish out - the estate line (which the Astor is) has fully boxed dovetailed drawers in the kitchen/bath cabinets which were not available on any KB home in any other community in San Antonio. From an architectural standpoint - the spec home you walked through avoids the big box look of most of KB product and has a higher standard finish out.
You are free to have your opinion - but to say that one 3,100 square foot house is the same as another just because they share similar dimensions is silly. The Astor is significantly more complext to build and has a significantly more detailed interior and exterior in terms of finish out. Sadly that spec house while on a cul-de-sac has a horrible back yard and since it is lacking a third car garage will be hard to sell.
I am sorry you don't like their high end product - but I am glad you are happy with your existing home. KB needs all the satisfied buyers they can get in this difficult real estate environment.
But I think you tip your hand when you compare square footage and not building complexity. You act as if KB is just charging more for the neighborhood but do not give credit for the complexity that these more detailed semi-custom homes have - which drive up both materials and labor costs from a construction standpoint.
Again - I would love to know what neighborhood you live in and how long you have owned your home.
I agree the Astor product, now discontinued, just like the other spec home that was 380K+ was not the big box like the model home they are now selling at the Quarry. The model they are now selling doesn't have the trey ceilings, vaults etc. Its just a standard box like the other KB homes, with many of the same features i.e. doors, windows, sheathing, etc.
At the $380K - 400K price point I would expect better windows, stone tile instead of 12x12 ceramic (not even porcelian), etc. Now since KB has now figured out it can't compete with the custom builders at that price point they have gone back to the box construction without the INTERIOR architectural details.
I purchased in Cibolo, springtree subdivision and I love it there close to work, great schools, small town and low taxes. I paid 200K base price not to include the person upgrades I did duirng construction -- almost 3300SF. I have fiber optics in the home, surround sound, custom eletrical, two windows added to plan, real bathroom exhaust fans, whole house surge protector, slate patio, granite counters, granite arches, crown throughout the entire house, 10+ deep SS sink, solid bamboo floors, no carpet in home etc etc. I paid a lot less and have a better finish then the 380K home at the same SF.
I took a look at a custom home in OH - $900K. What makes a home custom are the architecturial details....big expansive windows, different ceiling heights, trey ceilings, crown molding, stone inlays, etc etc. Even then they used the same cheap toliets, water heater, etc. that you find in a 150K home. So when KB went back to their boxes they really hurt the folks that bought the "pilot" semi-custom homes that they no longer offer.
On top of that I noticed in the Quarry that at least one home has the same issues the Centex homes have next to my neighborhood...don't stain their fence and it looks horrible, not to mention it will cut several years out of the life of the fence.
I still stand by my arguement that if you plan on living in a home for a long time, KB's Hallmark is the best deal going around for the SF for the price. And you can upgrade the home and get a better finish than their top of the line brands at a significant price savings. With everything I have in my home, it has a better fit and finish than their top of the line brands that they now offer at the Quarry.
Just my .02 and not to take away from anyone's decision to build anywhere.
[quote=banker;3618171]I meant to ask you the other day...they Zone Hallmark homes? I initially looked at Saddle Mountain (which is a step or two up from the Hallmark line) and they do not do zoned units. They offer multiple return air ducts for each floor - but only one thermostat. Infact I asked specifically about having dampers put in with two thermostats in the (now discontinued 3106 - Alamo floor plan in Saddle Mountain) and KB told me that they only installed multiple return air lines but not thermostatically controlled dampers in anything below the Quarry. So my question to you is do you have dampers and multiple thermostats? If so - what neighborhood are you in?
Banker,
I forgot to answer your above question. I had my home zoned after I moved in. However I did run the thermostat wires etc. so that it would be alot easier to do after I moved in. I have two touch screen honeywell thermostats installed to dampers and a fresh air duct damper run to my air return. I provided all the materials and had it installed after I closed. The fresh air damper is a must. My thermostats also control for humidity and they also optimize fresh air into the home. The HVAC guy told me its the smartest thing you can do. My first months electric bill was only $120 and I keep my tempture settings at 70-75 on both floors.
Ask KB if they are providing you a variable speed air handler? If not, it would be worth the money to get one. The fan will continue to run after the heatpump is off, and if you have the right setup it help control the humidity. I will probably add a couple of UV lights to my setup. It will be easy to do because I added an outlet in the blower closet.
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