Article: The Great California Exodus (San Diego, Freedom: middle-class, short sales, foreclosure)

[AADAD]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

Here's the problem with your analogy with Alaska.

The whole state, all 600K square miles of it, has 700K people. That is half the population of one city in California, San Diego.

Yes, my sister can leave the doors unlocked on her house. The only reason why their door is locked is because the dogs will get out.

But her entire town has 900 people in it. There are more people living here in my apartment complex. She and her husband know everyone in her town, not just by face, but by name. When they got married, every single person in the town showed up at the reception.

I don't know everyone in my apartment complex. And of the people who I do know, it's very unlikely any of them will be inviting me to their wedding.

Law enforcement for my sister is pretty much non-existent. I call 911 and the cops are here in five minutes. She calls 911 and they might be there in half an hour, if she's lucky.

And most importantly, Alaska gets back $1.84 for every dollar it sends in to Uncle Sam. We get back $0.78 for every buck we send in.

You give us that $0.22 per dollar we send in back and Jerry Brown could fly a helicopter from Sacramento to the Mexican border tossing out $100 bills and still have some money left.

Yes, I can see your point of apples/oranges however the OP is talking about exodus and the reason people do leave. The dogmatic tax is my big one but it's more.

People here feel and act like they have some kind of f'n right to me and mine. It's the attitude the intrusiveness and the arrogance.

I wake them up and not in a nice way and they stand dumbfounded like they can't get into the mall.

You wont' find that in Alaska and it's not due to less people.

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Lots of interesting observations here.

Personally, I agree with a lot of it. I agree with earlyretirement in regards to starting a business here and never opening a business here. I did and knew when to get out, strategically knowing the growth potential downsides. I am glad I made the decisions that I did with my partners and investors.

I think CA is great for certain start up companies and VC oppts simply due to the rich talent pool. I had read somewhere that the US doesnt make anything anymore except ideas and I think in its own convoluted way is true with CA taking the lead.
While it can bring out the absolute once in a lifetime type of businesses, it doesnt play nice to other types of businesses.

As far as living here in SD, we are all stuck in this mess as Sacramento does control the puppet strings. So when we all go down, its a snowball effect and impacts any tax funded services from schools to you name it.
What I am not a fan of and I believe is being contested in CA Supreme Court is the ability for the State to raid General Fund coffers of cities. So for anyone of you that dont know, this one of the reasons cities are always quick to spend or convert that additional General Fund revenue, because it will be protected or spent.

I think there is a belief and stigma about California that will never change and that will always bring people back. For one no one can deny the natural beauty here that is in abundance. This in of itself is priceless and a true tangible asset that is so iconic in nature to the state itself, that it cant be ignored. This isnt to say that other states dont have this, but this is where the other end picks up. Diversity in population and a forward thinking mentality. When the people that need to leave CA leave, they are also taking with them their attitude about not believing their purpose somewhere besides daily tasks like going to work and raising a family. CA isnt the place for that in the broadest sense. Its constantly moving.
The middle class (I hate saying that) will always find a struggle to find stability here because of the cyclical nature of the business environment, ties to real estate and the laws that hinder or protect those environs.
However, when things do start firing on all cylinders, its an unstoppable machine. The rewards can be great here, but for those that are not of the gambling type, it can be an unsettling experience.

In the meantime there are people leaving CA because they can. Some come back, others find their value is better served elsewhere. Because ultimately that is what it boils down to.

Life is short. Enjoy it. In between then, it never hurts to have friendly conversation regardless of stance

[Clevelandgal]

When its too easy to open a business, you contend with all manner of grifters looking to make a buck. No thanks,lived in FL for 13 years. And the no income tax isn't worth it either. Me, feel free to tax the crap out of me, my quality of life rocks. Btw we got the largest
tax refund ever (from several past states of residence between us including low tax dumps like Tx)

[tonyinsd]

Originally Posted by AADAD

People here feel and act like they have some kind of f'n right to me and mine.

This intrigues me.

Is this something that typically happens to you? How does that manifest itself? Are people literally telling you, give me that? Or do you just perceive that people want to take what's yours away?

And what specific behaviors do they exhibit that indicate to you that they want to take what is yours away?

[mongozx]

To the people leaving California: BYE! GET THE HELL OUT! Why waste another breath moaning and groaning about this state? Move to those aforementioned places: Oklahomer and Florider.

And when you realize that the only reason you moved to where you did was "Because it's cheap and, ummmm, and that's pretty much it " then please please PLEASE don't move back here.

Thanks in advance.

[AADAD]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

This intrigues me.

Is this something that typically happens to you? How does that manifest itself? Are people literally telling you, give me that? Or do you just perceive that people want to take what's yours away?

And what specific behaviors do they exhibit that indicate to you that they want to take what is yours away?

I would tell you the answer but if you have to ask the question you might not understand it. Your questions are in themselves a good example of what I have come to know here.

[earlyretirement]

Originally Posted by Clevelandgal

When its too easy to open a business, you contend with all manner of grifters looking to make a buck. No thanks,lived in FL for 13 years. And the no income tax isn't worth it either. Me, feel free to tax the crap out of me, my quality of life rocks. Btw we got the largest
tax refund ever (from several past states of residence between us including low tax dumps like Tx)

I don't think people are only moving to non state income tax states like Texas because there is no State income tax. Probably more to the fact that the economy is MUCH better there and there are more job opportunities.

My feeling is you can't pay taxes if you have no jobs. And that is the case for many people that are looking for a job in California. When I graduated from University back in the mid 90's I didn't move to Texas because there was no state income tax. I moved because there were a ton of jobs (and high paying jobs at that).

I agree that you can't just look at just tax implications when moving to a city. I think you also have to think about overall quality of life issues and how much you will enjoy the city. San Diego definitely "rocks" if you have a good stable job or stable cash flow from investments.

However, for many people, it just doesn't make sense because especially in a city like San Diego, they won't be able to find a good job or they will make much less than other cities.

And also a big tax refund most times just means you paid in too much during the year. Always a good feeling getting money back but I don't have any interest giving an interest free loan to Uncle Sam.

[NewtoSD?]

Originally Posted by AADAD

I would tell you the answer but if you have to ask the question you might not understand it. Your questions are in themselves a good example of what I have come to know here.

The ironic part is, you can in fact live a rural existence in plenty of areas in California, pay dirt cheep rent/motgage, know every single one of your neighbors, hunt, etc. People that hate CA like to pidegeon hole the entire state into a conglomerate of LA, SF, and SD.

On the other hand, if tax is your primary issue, then you have whittled your choices down to a handful of states. From my experience living in a cold weather state with no state income tax, you'll spend as much on utilities there as you will pay in taxes here.

[NewtoSD?]

Originally Posted by shmoov_groovzsd

Lots of interesting observations here.

Personally, I agree with a lot of it. I agree with earlyretirement in regards to starting a business here and never opening a business here. I did and knew when to get out, strategically knowing the growth potential downsides. I am glad I made the decisions that I did with my partners and investors.

I think CA is great for certain start up companies and VC oppts simply due to the rich talent pool. I had read somewhere that the US doesnt make anything anymore except ideas and I think in its own convoluted way is true with CA taking the lead.
While it can bring out the absolute once in a lifetime type of businesses, it doesnt play nice to other types of businesses.

As far as living here in SD, we are all stuck in this mess as Sacramento does control the puppet strings. So when we all go down, its a snowball effect and impacts any tax funded services from schools to you name it.
What I am not a fan of and I believe is being contested in CA Supreme Court is the ability for the State to raid General Fund coffers of cities. So for anyone of you that dont know, this one of the reasons cities are always quick to spend or convert that additional General Fund revenue, because it will be protected or spent.

I think there is a belief and stigma about California that will never change and that will always bring people back. For one no one can deny the natural beauty here that is in abundance. This in of itself is priceless and a true tangible asset that is so iconic in nature to the state itself, that it cant be ignored. This isnt to say that other states dont have this, but this is where the other end picks up. Diversity in population and a forward thinking mentality. When the people that need to leave CA leave, they are also taking with them their attitude about not believing their purpose somewhere besides daily tasks like going to work and raising a family. CA isnt the place for that in the broadest sense. Its constantly moving.
The middle class (I hate saying that) will always find a struggle to find stability here because of the cyclical nature of the business environment, ties to real estate and the laws that hinder or protect those environs.
However, when things do start firing on all cylinders, its an unstoppable machine. The rewards can be great here, but for those that are not of the gambling type, it can be an unsettling experience.

In the meantime there are people leaving CA because they can. Some come back, others find their value is better served elsewhere. Because ultimately that is what it boils down to.

Life is short. Enjoy it. In between then, it never hurts to have friendly conversation regardless of stance

I agree with a lot of what you said, with one caveat: if you desire to raise a family here, the opportunity exists. People make blanket statements about our cost of living, but in the same breath ignore our ridiculously cheap higher education. In fact, we have the cheapest state college tuition in the nation.

Bottom line, if you want to make it here, you can. You can educate yourself and create the economic opportunities necessary to live a good life here. ANYONE can do this here, without exception.

[MovingAloha]

Originally Posted by mongozx

To the people leaving California: BYE! GET THE HELL OUT! Why waste another breath moaning and groaning about this state? Move to those aforementioned places: Oklahomer and Florider.

And when you realize that the only reason you moved to where you did was "Because it's cheap and, ummmm, and that's pretty much it " then please please PLEASE don't move back here.

Thanks in advance.

^^+1I so agree with you with the exception that once folks realize their "mistake" and move back, they need to leave the pi$$ing and moaning back in the other State!!