Why Are People In The Bay Area So Soft? (Oakland: high schools, colleges)
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I've noticed that SF has changed quite a bit between the 90s and now (even late 90s and now). I've lived in Bay area for 9 years (3 diff locations) , when I used to go out we had no shortage of after-hour clubs or places you could grab food after partying. The streets lines with bars and restaurants also tended to feel a bit busier.. We had plenty of opportunities in our 20s to go out, entertain ourselves and get in trouble. I still visit SF and can't help but feel that it's gotten simply more dead even in areas that used to be pretty vibrant and happening like Union St, Pacific heights, for example. Now these areas are lined with boutiques as opposed to bars. Granted, my age and family status precludes me from being interested in nightlife anyway, I still notice such things. I came to visit during Christmas season and while Union Sq was definitely bustling, the area around Market st was pretty dead... I was used to Market area being much busier. Some of it could be attributed to the recession with people willing to go out less and less, but overall the streets just seem more deserted. Does anyone else have a similar impression if you have lived here for a while or have lived here before?
I usually avoid having to generalize what type of people live in whatever area having lived all over the place myself and having experience with all sorts of people in all sorts of places. It's silly to say that 'all' people in Bay Area or vast majority are soft and pc because that would be great generalization. But overall, it's true that one place may have just higher concentration of certain types of people than the other place. West Coast has higher concentration of 'granola' types in highly urban setting in major cities than on the East Coast. Granola types are in general those you would consider more soft and more PC and not too oriented towards appearances and clothing like traditional yuppies. Yuppies here tend to get a 'granola cast' to them. They may be ambitious but may not necessarily show it or consider it a virtue. There are definitely more vegetarians, anti-fur activists, families using cloth diapers and buying exclusively organic, recreational tri-athletes and aggressive bicyclists in the major cities of the West coast. East coast has its share of such folks too but not as much in urban centers of core cities. On the other hand it's equally funny when I read DC forums to see people complain about the overly ambitious self-centered career oriented suit wearing types...
I have to say SF does have it's fair share of people that are rough around the edges too, I wouldn't go as far as to say vast majority of SF, Bay Area inhabitants are soft and pc. Probably the OP must be hanging out with more than his fair share of 'granola' types or granola-yuppie hybrids… Bay Area has its ghettos and it has a large population of immigrants, who tend to bring their somewhat rougher culture with them. There is definitely a rougher side to Bay Area and if you don't live too sheltered of a lifestyle you'll feel it.
As far as comparison with NYC, I live there now and Bay Area is definitely slower but so is everything else. Also, my cousin who is a recent college grad came to visit NYC and went out here, he claims the girls in NYC are much friendlier and easier to talk to than in Bay Area.. go figure.
Excellent post. I agree with all you have to say here, and I think you're right in regards to the OP. I also fully agree on how much more alive and how different it was here in the 90's. I really miss those days a lot!
I agree that coming from another region, depending on where you are coming from, some people in the bay area do seem soft and politically correct. I really struggled with this because my husband and I like to joke with people everywhere we go. We think its fun, and generally keeps things light. I am from LA originally and my husband is from PA. We met in LA and relocated to SF.
It was total culture shock that people just didn't get our humor or sarcasm or seemed to get offended easily or want to debate if you use a certain term or the worst is the smug attitude towards trying to be super PC, and if you are not Mr. or Ms. perfect organic, hybrid, sustainable, no make up wearing, mountain climbing, vegan bla bla bla...then you are a neo con facist imperialist westerner oppressing the masses. There is a strange self righteousness people get because they compost their garbage. They feel the need to share it with everyone to get approval.
There is little tolerance for moderation here, which I find one dimensional. You really have to seek it out to find people you can relate to, and people here will generally not express a point of view outside the bay area PC status quo in a public setting for fear of being labeled a "Neo con" whatever that means. I suppose they assume you love Sarah Palin and wars. In LA, there is more variety and tolerance for different points of view. Of course people generally are too busy doing their own thing to care what other people think anyway. LOL
I also did not know Nor Cal people hated So Cal with a bizarre, hostile almost physical reaction. This was probably the biggest shock to me. When we lived in LA, we would travel to Napa and have a nice time, and I never had a negative opinion about Nor Cal. I really didn't have any opinion one way or the other. I had been to SF several times on business, but just stayed in the downtown area with colleagues from all over and never noticed any of these odd nuances of SF or the bay area, until we moved here. My husband and I stopped telling people we were from LA because it really seemed to upset people, and they assumed we were probably "fake, hollywood douchebags" or whatever, and would instantly become unfriendly and judgemental...even though neither me or my husband worked in entertainment, went to hollywood hotspots, or are plastic surgery disasters.
I think the problem is when people move here from other cities, particularly NY or LA...especially the natives from those areas, they probably assume people in SF will be more energetic, stylish, individual, ambitious, more amenities, cleaner, more upscale, better nightlife bla bla bla, just different than what it is, and end up being disappointed when the place doesn't meet their expectations, and then they are not used to the locals taking it personally when you complain about it.
In LA, when transplants complain about the cities downfalls, the locals usually agree and make a joke about it. They don't take it personally. They just don't care since LA really embraces people from all walks of life and cultures, and expects people to be different. I think in LA people see a variety of views as more fun adding to the fabric of the big city or just don't put a lot of effort into it. LA people also value their anonymity to do as they please.
Here is an example
Transplant and local walk into LA night club...transplant says "wow...look at all these fake idiots, how much did those **** cost?", local says...No kidding...what a wanna be britney spears. lets bail. I'm not into this scene right now. They leave...end of story....find a dive bar or late night cafe and have a laugh.
vs
Transplant and local walk into SF goldengate park festival: transplant says: Whaddup with all these granola commies? Don't they take showers?
Local says: No man. These people are cool. You are the problem. You don't deserve to live in our great city. Go home or move to the marina with all the other wanna be LA people.
Transplant leaves bewildered, and local stays with a feeling of smug empowerment and self righteousness along with a good story to tell about the loser transplant ruining the vibe in SF bla bla bla.
My mother grew up in a small town in Ohio, and the way she described growing up there is if you were different, you were an outcast, and there was more of a group think mentality....plus it was more rural like nor cal. That is how I see the SF bay area. Its is really more of a series of small towns including the city itself rather than a vast metropolis.
I agree that coming from another region, depending on where you are coming from, some people in the bay area do seem soft and politically correct. I really struggled with this because my husband and I like to joke with people everywhere we go. We think its fun, and generally keeps things light. I am from LA originally and my husband is from PA. We met in LA and relocated to SF.
It was total culture shock that people just didn't get our humor or sarcasm or seemed to get offended easily or want to debate if you use a certain term or the worst is the smug attitude towards trying to be super PC, and if you are not Mr. or Ms. perfect organic, hybrid, sustainable, no make up wearing, mountain climbing, vegan bla bla bla...then you are a neo con facist imperialist westerner oppressing the masses. There is a strange self righteousness people get because they compost their garbage. They feel the need to share it with everyone to get approval.
There is little tolerance for moderation here, which I find one dimensional. You really have to seek it out to find people you can relate to, and people here will generally not express a point of view outside the bay area PC status quo in a public setting for fear of being labeled a "Neo con" whatever that means. I suppose they assume you love Sarah Palin and wars. In LA, there is more variety and tolerance for different points of view. Of course people generally are too busy doing their own thing to care what other people think anyway. LOL
I also did not know Nor Cal people hated So Cal with a bizarre, hostile almost physical reaction. This was probably the biggest shock to me. When we lived in LA, we would travel to Napa and have a nice time, and I never had a negative opinion about Nor Cal. I really didn't have any opinion one way or the other. I had been to SF several times on business, but just stayed in the downtown area with colleagues from all over and never noticed any of these odd nuances of SF or the bay area, until we moved here. My husband and I stopped telling people we were from LA because it really seemed to upset people, and they assumed we were probably "fake, hollywood douchebags" or whatever, and would instantly become unfriendly and judgemental...even though neither me or my husband worked in entertainment, went to hollywood hotspots, or are plastic surgery disasters.
I think the problem is when people move here from other cities, particularly NY or LA...especially the natives from those areas, they probably assume people in SF will be more energetic, stylish, individual, ambitious, more amenities, cleaner, more upscale, better nightlife bla bla bla, just different than what it is, and end up being disappointed when the place doesn't meet their expectations, and then they are not used to the locals taking it personally when you complain about it.
In LA, when transplants complain about the cities downfalls, the locals usually agree and make a joke about it. They don't take it personally. They just don't care since LA really embraces people from all walks of life and cultures, and expects people to be different. I think in LA people see a variety of views as more fun adding to the fabric of the big city or just don't put a lot of effort into it. LA people also value their anonymity to do as they please.
Here is an example
Transplant and local walk into LA night club...transplant says "wow...look at all these fake idiots, how much did those **** cost?", local says...No kidding...what a wanna be britney spears. lets bail. I'm not into this scene right now. They leave...end of story....find a dive bar or late night cafe and have a laugh.
vs
Transplant and local walk into SF goldengate park festival: transplant says: Whaddup with all these granola commies? Don't they take showers?
Local says: No man. These people are cool. You are the problem. You don't deserve to live in our great city. Go home or move to the marina with all the other wanna be LA people.
Transplant leaves bewildered, and local stays with a feeling of smug empowerment and self righteousness along with a good story to tell about the loser transplant ruining the vibe in SF bla bla bla.
My mother grew up in a small town in Ohio, and the way she described growing up there is if you were different, you were an outcast, and there was more of a group think mentality....plus it was more rural like nor cal. That is how I see the SF bay area. Its is really more of a series of small towns including the city itself rather than a vast metropolis.
Read through all your postings (former "luckygirlll" troll..as if you'd fool me..couldn't stand your rants then either) and see how your negative vibe and excessive complaining is in fact ruining the landscape here..and probably in your own home.
Nobody says you have to like anything about the area or the people. Convince your husband that you want to get the he** out of this place (but I'm sure he's sick of listening to you by now unless he's already found a more pleasant woman to be around) and be happy somewhere else. Gawd. I don't know how people (from any part of the state could stand to be around you).
I ask you, like I ask the other obviously depressed posters..what do you want us posters to do about the things you hate? What's your point? You gonna stew in your own misery for the rest of your life here? Why not ask your husband/yourself why money was more important than you feeling good? I don't take criticism of San Francisco/Bay Area personally..I don't give a **ck to defend it. It's a place on a map that has meaning to me since I grew up there. A place cannot cause you misery..that is all you. I'm sorry to say..YOU.
It's hardly a self-righteousness issue on my part. It's the nasty vibe you exude.. Waah, why don't people work harder to make more money here? Waah, people here don't like LA people and judge us.. Waah, men are too metrosexual and nerdy here, Waah, I'm too good for ghetto prostitute land Concord, Waah, people don't get our humor (yeah, you sound like a barrel of laughs)... .Omg..shut up!
You think it's everybody else?? Really? Read through your posts..I don't know you, but I can't stand what you've written. It has nothing at all to do with where you are from or who you vote for or obviously what you look like or your diet or how much you compost (you really think people have the time to care about you that much?).
That's terribly self absorbed to believe that all Bay Areans all give a cr** and obsess about you/your life. Thing is, and sadly you don't even realize- you're the only judgmental one! Or perhaps you're just paranoid in real life.
Batransplant, you're right about the anti-SoCal-ness up here, but what you don't realize is that it's it's not a NorCal thing in general, but specifically an SF/Berkeley/Marin thing, mostly perpetrated by ex-SoCal transplants that left LA holding grudges. As people mentioned, not too many people in SF are actually from SF anymore, and all these anti-SoCal'ers are mostly whiners with grudges who moved up to SF with some sort of PC-stereotype in their heads. When I grew up in the Bay Area burbs, nobody ever talked about SoCal like that, and it was only when I went to Berkeley for college that I first heard about this supposed hatred and was just as surprised by it as you. True locals don't care about petty stuff like that. We did our Disneyland / Universal Studios trips like everyone else.
Still, I don't know why so many people here sound like they ONLY come across politically-correct people with no sense of humor. All our friends are super fun, funny, and love good sarcasm. Y'all are hanging out with the wrong crowds or hangin' with the hippes or something. Plenty of cool people around here, and plenty of different political opinions and people who don't compost every egg shell or harvest their own organic coffee beans.
Read through all your postings (former "luckygirlll" troll..as if you'd fool me..couldn't stand your rants then either) and see how your negative vibe and excessive complaining is in fact ruining the landscape here..and probably in your own home.
Nobody says you have to like anything about the area or the people. Convince your husband that you want to get the he** out of this place (but I'm sure he's sick of listening to you by now unless he's already found a more pleasant woman to be around) and be happy somewhere else. Gawd. I don't know how people (from any part of the state could stand to be around you).
I ask you, like I ask the other obviously depressed posters..what do you want us posters to do about the things you hate? What's your point? You gonna stew in your own misery for the rest of your life here? Why not ask your husband/yourself why money was more important than you feeling good? I don't take criticism of San Francisco/Bay Area personally..I don't give a **ck to defend it. It's a place on a map that has meaning to me since I grew up there. A place cannot cause you misery..that is all you. I'm sorry to say..YOU.
It's hardly a self-righteousness issue on my part. It's the nasty vibe you exude.. Waah, why don't people work harder to make more money here? Waah, people here don't like LA people and judge us.. Waah, men are too metrosexual and nerdy here, Waah, I'm too good for ghetto prostitute land Concord, Waah, people don't get our humor (yeah, you sound like a barrel of laughs)... .Omg..shut up!
You think it's everybody else?? Really? Read through your posts..I don't know you, but I can't stand what you've written. It has nothing at all to do with where you are from or who you vote for or obviously what you look like or your diet or how much you compost (you really think people have the time to care about you that much?).
That's terribly self absorbed to believe that all Bay Areans all give a cr** and obsess about you/your life. Thing is, and sadly you don't even realize- you're the only judgmental one! Or perhaps you're just paranoid in real life.
Batransplant, you're right about the anti-SoCal-ness up here, but what you don't realize is that it's it's not a NorCal thing in general, but specifically an SF/Berkeley/Marin thing, mostly perpetrated by ex-SoCal transplants that left LA holding grudges. As people mentioned, not too many people in SF are actually from SF anymore, and all these anti-SoCal'ers are mostly whiners with grudges who moved up to SF with some sort of PC-stereotype in their heads. When I grew up in the Bay Area burbs, nobody ever talked about SoCal like that, and it was only when I went to Berkeley for college that I first heard about this supposed hatred and was just as surprised by it as you. True locals don't care about petty stuff like that. We did our Disneyland / Universal Studios trips like everyone else.
Still, I don't know why so many people here sound like they ONLY come across politically-correct people with no sense of humor. All our friends are super fun, funny, and love good sarcasm. Y'all are hanging out with the wrong crowds or hangin' with the hippes or something. Plenty of cool people around here, and plenty of different political opinions and people who don't compost every egg shell or harvest their own organic coffee beans.
THANK YOU! I have no idea where these transplants are winding up to find themselves surrounded by so many of these obnoxious types they keep describing. If my experiences matched theirs in the slightest I'd be the first to agree with them. But they sound like they're just regurgitating stereotypes that I keep hearing from outsiders who have never been here before. They remind me of the mindless Bush and Palin, or even Obama supporters who just repeat the same rhetoric that their politicians are saying rather than offer any new type of perspective to show that they have a mind of their own. Except instead being sheep when it comes to political views, they just take whatever their fed for stereotyping other regions. How did the Bay become so cursed with such lame transplants?
And regardless of whatever popular opinion is, my perspective in regards to LA matches yours. I grew up not really caring about LA a whole lot and just went there on vacations to Disneyland here and there as a kid. I always loved it when I was there, and it has always been the West Coast flagship city in my mind (if for nothing more than being the only part of CA people from the East Coast believed to exist b/c of TV and film). I never, ever looked down upon it, nor did anyone I grew up around, for anything other than sports - really just the Dodgers, although I hated the Rams too.
I wasn't even used to people from SoCal bashing us until the some point in the past decade. I remember playing pokerstars online and my logo was a Niners "SF" and out of nowhere some idiot just said, "SF sucks." Then when I responded with, "LA swallows and asks for seconds," this hater comes back with, "my point exactly. SF is too uptight." LOL. As though I was supposed to be like, "yeah I know SF really does suck! Thanks so much for offering your opinion kind sir."
And since then I have come across that attitude a few times here and there. Especially when the garbage a$$ Dodgers are in town and their idiot fans invade our city. I was at Ghiradelli square like 2 years ago right before a game one time and saw all these jerkoffs in blue shirts that read "F*ck SF." But no, WE'RE the ones with all the hatred, right?? Lol whatever. All I know is that I never had anything against LA, and I didn't grow up around any negative sentiment toward SoCal outside of sports (I even liked the Lakers as a kid lol). I've always gotten along with and had much love for LA and LA people, and I still do really. I just can't stand haters.
I do think that some of the Northern California vs. Southern California stems from the many drought years that we have had in the state. The people in Northern California have had to watch our water use while having our water shipped down south using the California Aqueduct.
I was at Ghiradelli square like 2 years ago right before a game one time and saw all these jerkoffs in blue shirts that read "F*ck SF." But no, WE'RE the ones with all the hatred, right??
> Jeez, can you be any more dramatic and uptight? They are sports fans and sports fans tend to be loud, boisterous and sometimes obnoxious everywhere. When Texas versus Oklahoma games happen, whole army of Okies descend on Dallas in their big SUVs with "Tuck Fexas" stickers. And no, even the "Don't-mess-with-Texas" types folks don't get mad. They drink beer with the locals, enjoy the city for couple of days, and its all done with good spirits.
But the SF stereotype is largely true. Even though I am not from SoCal I had a guy tell me how LA is ugly and have no culture. I mean, the second largest urban area in US and one of the most prominent cities on world map have no culture? Clueless folks like these are way common here than you want to admit. In reality, LA is in a different league altogether simply because of its sheer size and diversity. People here always like to boast about having 'a lot culture', as if culture is quantifiable commodity that you acquire!-
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