2009: Oakland crime decreased twice as fast as nat'l average (Montclair: foreclosed, high crime)

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Tell me about it. Hip-Hop was started by American Blacks and in the US is still produced predominantly by blacks but an overwhelming majority of listeners are white.

Saying that hip-hop is predominantly black in the 21st century is like saying that rock was predominantly black in 1964.

Both hip hop and rock were originated by African-Americans and originally overwhelmingly produced by African Americans but became popular across racial and ethnic lines to the point that they no longer belong to any group.

If anything hip hop today, in the post-gangsta age, is closer to the hair metal of the 1980s - it's all about getting laid, and hip hop videos look a great deal like hair metal videos - the only difference is that the scantily clad females are a little darker-skinned than those who used to be in the videos of Poison et al.

IMO all American created popular musical traditions have roots in the black church but that's a topic for a different thread.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Tell me about it. Hip-Hop was started by American Blacks and in the US is still produced predominantly by blacks but an overwhelming majority of listeners are white.

Not only that, the first rap music wasn't even about glorifying killing, drugs, and sex. It was a social consciousness movement. It was music founded as a response to the "urban renewal" of the 1960's that was affecting many low income African-American residents, not to mention other issues ranging from police brutality to other dysfunctions. When the love of money(not money itself) got involved, then hip-hop started getting some questionable things. It became all about the money, and that is where many of those horrible songs came out. If anything, it isn't so much hip-hop, but the MESSAGE coming from many of these songs. If it was someone like Kirk Franklin or Reverend Run, few people would listen to them compared to someone like Li'l Wayne or T.I. Granted, the message coming from Kirk Franklin and Reverend Run is much better, that isn't what sells. Their message is something that everyone can benefit from and would be helpful. Unfortunately, songs glorifying violence and other horrible things are what sell.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by majoun

Saying that hip-hop is predominantly black in the 21st century is like saying that rock was predominantly black in 1964.

Both hip hop and rock were originated by African-Americans and originally overwhelmingly produced by African Americans but became popular across racial and ethnic lines to the point that they no longer belong to any group.

If anything hip hop today, in the post-gangsta age, is closer to the hair metal of the 1980s - it's all about getting laid, and hip hop videos look a great deal like hair metal videos - the only difference is that the scantily clad females are a little darker-skinned than those who used to be in the videos of Poison et al.

IMO all American created popular musical traditions have roots in the black church but that's a topic for a different thread.

I'd have to agree with you actually.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Not only that, the first rap music wasn't even about glorifying killing, drugs, and sex. It was a social consciousness movement. It was music founded as a response to the "urban renewal" of the 1960's that was affecting many low income African-American residents, not to mention other issues ranging from police brutality to other dysfunctions. When the love of money(not money itself) got involved, then hip-hop started getting some questionable things. It became all about the money, and that is where many of those horrible songs came out. If anything, it isn't so much hip-hop, but the MESSAGE coming from many of these songs. If it was someone like Kirk Franklin or Reverend Run, few people would listen to them compared to someone like Li'l Wayne or T.I. Granted, the message coming from Kirk Franklin and Reverend Run is much better, that isn't what sells. Their message is something that everyone can benefit from and would be helpful. Unfortunately, songs glorifying violence and other horrible things are what sell.

Gotta agree here too. This is why I will never be a big selling artist myself. If I can sell a little, I'll be fine. I refuse to lower my music to those levels and I wish more would do the same.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

.... You quoted a comedian?


And you tell others that they don't have the info to back their points?


.... You quoted a comedian?


GTFO

Although he was more blunt about it, Chris Rock said the same things in his comedy routine as Larry Elder & Bill Cosby.

I noticed quite a few black people in the audience were laughing. They know there's some truth to what he's saying. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been funny.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Sure its economics, but who is affected most by it? Why are revenues dropping and persons who had little to with it are suffering?

Everyone is affected in some way. One could make the argument that those with less economic vitality suffer the "most", but it's hard to quantify suffering because it's part perception.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

So basically what you're saying is, you don't have any stats to depute the ones you say are wrong?

I'm saying that metrics that track sales by ethnicity are very hard to come by. So making any claim based on an uncited article is dubious at best.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Although he was more blunt about it, Chris Rock said the same things in his comedy routine as Larry Elder & Bill Cosby.

I noticed quite a few black people in the audience were laughing. They know there's some truth to what he's saying. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been funny.

Exactly my point. If the humor had no inkling of truth, no one would have laughed.

That's why I respect Chris Rock, he's all about taking ownership rather than passing the buck. Chris Rock didn't get rich by blaming white people for everything bad that happens to blacks.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Everyone is affected in some way. One could make the argument that those with less economic vitality suffer the "most", but it's hard to quantify suffering because it's part perception.

Maybe it is hard, but why do revenues dry up in many cities? Why are the schools taking the hardest hits?
Another question is: Why does it always have to be that the poorest persons get the worst schools? Why should that be?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Gotta agree here too. This is why I will never be a big selling artist myself. If I can sell a little, I'll be fine. I refuse to lower my music to those levels and I wish more would do the same.

The fact that one has to "lower" their standards to make a buck shows how sad things have gotten. Maybe that is the same situation with crime. If a person is willing to do something heinous to make a buck(or at the least, survive), there are many things going wrong.