My Experience in Seattle (fit in, neighborhood, bars)

[Professor46]

Better yet . . . A.) pay for a therapist (the OP seems to be rolling in cash) or B.) just leave the area (not that it will solve your problems).

Originally Posted by treuphax

If any of you know-it-all Seattle boosters say FleeingSeattle and I are just doing it wrong, I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and come out and show us how to do it right. Can't speak for Mr. FleeingSeattle, but I can say that I do try and I come here not only to air my gripes but also perhaps learn something about how to do things differently for different results.

Challenge for you: help us out. Be a wing wo(man) for a couple clueless frustrated fellas...

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by treuphax

I'll echo aspects of complaints about the women here. But I'm not sure it's a Seattle specific thing or more common to all educated modern young cosmopolitan women of this generation that gravitate to the big cities. For the past generation we've been telling our daughters to focus on their futures, not get tied down or distracted by relationships. It's not a lesson we've been drilling in our sons, so by now the boys may just be the remaining romantics. Whether this is feminism or not, it is a big mistake. For without love, what good is the future? If we've been telling the girls not to waste time or invest in relationships, we now harvest a crop of emotionally stunted women incapable of compromise, sacrifice or love. Don't misunderstand because it should be obvious that both a man and woman should be ready to invest, compromise and sacrifice for love. It can't work if only one side does all the heavy lifting...

Ah, but there are many women romantics out there! Pursuing a career and being a romantic are not mutually exclusive, as your post, itself, indicates. Women long for relationships, but in Seattle, the guys don't seem interested. Or maybe they're like the OP, and only go for the especially pretty ones. Or there are more shy guys and passive guys in Seattle? Because again, beyond Seattle's borders it seems to be a different scene. And certainly in CA, the guys are friendlier and are more equal-opportunity with their friendliness. Maybe you guys need to cast a wider net.

[treuphax]

@FleeingSeattle

Thanks for the follow-up.

It's interesting that your experience with certain organized events like meetup parallels mine. I've tried a number. While the idea and initiative by the organizers great and am grateful for their efforts. Nevertheless I've always been disappointed about not making any connections or friendships with women or men out of them. You're probably right that the folks who're social and get out there already have a pretty full dance card. We've got to be something pretty special for them to pick up the phone and follow through with plans.

I'd be interested to hear some case studies about these. Where are you finding your the candidates for the cold-approaches? In what kinds of situations are you working that? I can start conversations with strangers just fine and have had some great chats that way. It's only disappointing that I am rarely able to get into conversations like that with unfamiliar women in an appropriate target age. Perhaps the darlings are constantly being badgered by strange men that they are so guarded. Also likely is that it's just me. I'm not exactly a natural and could afford to learn more.

What Professor 46 suggests is also important. It's not just the place, it's our attitude and how we act. I don't completely expect things to change radically in a different place. They say wherever you go, there you are. So I don't mind experimenting with different approaches as long as I'm here. I might learn something. Nevertheless I doubt a psychotherapist would be of much use for this challenge.

Maybe a Seattle Charm School for newcomers to learn how to make the most of their time here?

[FleeingSeattle]

Well, I don't really know because I am self-conscious in a situation like that, but I think the critical thing is to not be afraid. Sure, you will sound like a dumbass but if she digs you it won't matter, and if she doesn't then it won't matter either.

I always have girls smile at me when they are walking by and I am just too slow to react. I think the first step will just be to say hello to every person I encounter.

[treuphax]

Perhaps I could have been clearer. Perhaps also you have been looking for an imaginary retrograde misogynist bigot to beat on for fun and giggles. But I never said that women shouldn't be ambitious or pursue a career. I was noting the common attitude I've perceived that seems to be emphasizing the importance of these things at the expense of any relationships, friendships and family. To compensate for generations of patriarchy we might have been telling young women with the most potential not to waste any time on those things because they might take energy better used in competition in the market and career, under the motto; "Chase the brass ring, not a husband." Why not find a balance and chase both? Maybe it's not feminism that is the problem after all. It's our current notion of capitalism that demands that women lean-in and sacrifice everything for an employer or cv development but for what?

Like Mr. FleeingSeattle I've had significant relationships with PhD's and other sharp ambitious women. I'm not making a case for old-fashioned homemaker who defers to my authority, I'm asking for balance. Where I was living in northern Europe both men and women seemed better able to find that kind of balance and maintain deeper friendships with both men and women. And those places aren't exactly known for oppressing women.

[NewbiePoster]

Originally Posted by FleeingSeattle

I had to take the afternoon off and go for a walk. I think the problem is I'm meeting these girls at organized events (not singles events, but Meetup, etc.) and so I am automatically getting the most sociable outgoing girls...the ones with lots of choices and opportunities every week. So even when I succeed, it's hard to hold onto anything when they have so many options. I think I'll try just doing more cold approaches on the street. I'm not super smooth at that, but I find girls here are actually kind of appreciative if you pay attention to them, once you break the ice. The logic being that if she doesn't go out to a ton of social events, she's less likely to be playing the field.

The anti-male thing here is bad, but I don't believe it's so bad it makes happiness impossible. I was having trouble resolving my apparent success intermixed with failure at the same time.

I find the narratives you people are putting out hilarious. Why do you have this extremist view of relationships? All my good relationships have been a give-and-take thing with a balance and mutual understanding you work out over time. Oh, and my last girlfriend was a PhD student in feminist studies. We had lots of poltical disagreements, but got along great on a personal level and are still good friends. So **** you and your narrow-minded bigotry.

Dude, you got it! IME, they are appreciative if you pay them some attention, bc so few dudes do that. Seattle for me was easy pickings, exactly for that reason. Some of the women I dated said I was the only dude to talk to them in, like, forever! lol.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth;

Maybe you guys need to cast a wider net.

And this. Like you said, OP, if she's not going to a ton of events, or not getting approached much, she won't be playing the field. According to the feedback I was getting from women in Seattle, they didn't have the option of playing the field, cuz the guys are so withdrawn and not into approaching. And don't react when women approach them, either.

[BellevueNative]

Huh. You're leaving a city you like - after just three months - because you don't yet have a girlfriend or wife?

Funny, all of my friends who are from here are married. Some married to local guys, others married guys who moved here.

Also, your post needed more references to Eastern European women to really bring it home.

[RotseCherut]

If I am going to date , fall in love with a modern, WEstern, Gender Equal, Feminist woman, it will be a Scandinavian woman.. At least in countries like Sweden and Norway, women do not expect men to take them out to dinner, pay their bills, make twice their income, etc. It's funny because in Seattle and other so-called "progressive" liberal American cities, these ambitious, career women DEMAND gender equality, that is until it comes to them having to foot the bill or take equal amount of their paycheck out to help the man. Most women here will insist on a man who makes more money than them and they will only demand equality if it works in their advantage. However, when it comes time for a date, it will be the guy paying for the expensive restaurant and pampering the precious "woman."

THey say in countries like Sweden, there is actually more female breadwinners than male breadwinners now. It is also much more likely for women to ask men out on dates and even pay for the date. Men in Sweden don't have an objection to a woman spoiling or pampering them. You think that will happen in GENDER EQUAL Seattle?? Hell No!

Let me rephrase that "Gender Equality" here in the USA means "Female Dominance". Where you will pay the bills, cook the meals, take her out to dinner and when she divorces you, you will pay the majority of alimony and child support as the courts will always side with the woman even if she marries a man wealthier than you, expect to keep forking out big checks. This is the modern American meaning of "Gender Equality."

BTW.. Fleeing Seattle to a guy who says F--- OFF to the extremists, you should read your original post.. LOL.. Where is that PHD in Feminist STudies or whatever you said she was today? Are you married with her? If not, then, what's the big deal of bragging about it? And for somebody who respects feminism, as you say, you certainly maligned it viciously in your original post; did you have abnesia? Or, perhaps, the City Data fallout was a bit too hefty..


I'm not against Gender Equality when the women truly follow Gender Equality to the letter and don't use it as a way to manipulate men and gain the upper hand on them. Don't expect to be treated like a "King". Kings are rulers and a Seattle or any Western woman doesn't want to be ruled. Expect to be treated like an "Equal".

What you need to change more than anything is your attitude. If you want a Seattle woman, you need to understand what they desire. If you want your next relationship with a Feminist Studies major to lead to marriage, this is the approach that has to be taken.

Maybe, sooner or later, women in the USA can learn from Scandinavian countries the true meaning of "Gender-Equal" relationships. In Sweden, for example, men get to take maternity leave just like a woman after a childbirth. Women and men are both expected to support one another financially and share equal responsibilities. In America, it is usually the woman who manipulates the man into doing what she wants and even utilizes old-world male role expectations when they are useful to her advantage. However, when they work against her, then it is "GENDER EQUALITY" she will enforce.

My 2 Cents.

[kanhawk]

Originally Posted by FleeingSeattle

I think I'll try just doing more cold approaches on the street.

Let us know how that works out. I would be very skeptical of trying anything like that in Seattle, where most approaches by people on the street is done by creeps and vagrants.

[CrazyDonkey]

Part of the situation is that Seattle, with maybe four months of good weather, is an indoor city. Most meet-ups it seems to me have some kind of focus around an interest, issue, or topic - if you're only there to meet women, while you might hit it off initially, the connection is likely to be superficial, due to having few if any real shared interests.