Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"For those with an unbiased and honest view of history, that flag will always represent racial oppression, first and foremost. Flag opponents are not asking anyone to forget history or to give up their flag. Just the opposite: We must never forget! Those who put one of the many Confederate flags on their cars or fly them in their yards at least do us the favor of letting us know what they stand for. Still, at some point, there must be a repudiation of the symbols and icons that glorify the immorality of the past."
I think I like that passage best from your above article
This is a very interesting (and sad) article. Yet, as the old saying goes: "the truth will set [us] free." Or, at the very least, it will liberate our minds (i.e., mindset).
This is a very interesting (and sad) article. Yet, as the old saying goes: "the truth will set [us] free." Or, at the very least, it will liberate our minds (i.e., mindset).
I would not consider "Counter Punch" where this article originated to be a reputable news source, that would be like calling O'Reilly unbiased. LOL
You asked previously on why the "Confederate Flag" was raised in Columbia in 1962 and no one had responded .....it was raised there to commemorate the Civil War Centennial.
Slavery was horrendous, but as the article erroneously stated 45.8% of SC did not own slaves, matter of fact very few did (another reason this article is meant to inflame). Many Southerners have a different picture of the Civil War, take some time to read Lincoln's, Lee's and Grant's letters etc. pre the Proclamation and you can see another picture on how so many fought the War that did not own slaves.
Do remember that Slavery was alive and well many more years under the Bars and Stars than it was under the Confederate flag. Also be aware and fearful of those hate groups that love hijacking something that may be near and dear to you. Shall we see the Christian Cross go to the wayside, too....could that be next? I hope not.
With all the Native Americans who were massacred by union soldiers of the north, how come all the people are complaining about the evils of the south and slavery? The confederate flag represents their culture and I have no problem with the flag at all. If we are going to bring down the confederate flag because of slavery, perhaps we should bring the American flag down for all the wrongdoings that were done under it? I bet a majority of Americans who condemn the Southern flag may have houses built upon sites where natives were slain or removed from their communal lands. Hypocrisy? No, of course not.
By the way I am very patriotic, but don't close my eyes to past atrocities on all sides. I am rather conservative on most issues. In no way do I like that slavery was supported in the South and I know that the South did indeed fight to retain slavery rights. However, the South was also a lot more poor and less industrialized then the North, so greedy landowners took advantage of the use of slaves. Slavery never benefited the individual Southerner. The Ku Klux Klan was partly created to scare away blacks from taking jobs from whom use to be their former slave-masters after the war. Obviously, they feared the poor whites there would not have jobs as a result of the cheap labor they offered. LOL. In case we don't forget the 13 original colonies also were slave colonies at one time. George Washington was a Virginian like Robert E. Lee and owned slaves. If he was alive in 1860s, would he may have joined the Confederacy?? So hard to tell.
Southerners for many years have had a distinct culture, dialect and way of life and I think they have every right to pride themselves with the confederate symbol and their Bonnie Blue Flag. The confederates in the 1800s owned slaves, but you will be hard pressed to find a Confederate flag wielding southerner today who would be anything less then sickened by slavery. Almost every nation has blood on their hands, why not remove all the flags? Should the people of Ghana pull their flag down too, because the chiefs of their tribes sold slaves to slave traders? We also must realize the South alone was not the only people responsible for the slave trade.
I am not biased here and have never lived in the south, so just be aware, most of my family comes from LA and New York.
I would not consider "Counter Punch" where this article originated to be a reputable news source, that would be like calling O'Reilly unbiased. LOL
You asked previously on why the "Confederate Flag" was raised in Columbia in 1962 and no one had responded .....it was raised there to commemorate the Civil War Centennial.
Except the Centennial was in 1961
Quote:
Slavery was horrendous, but as the article erroneously stated 45.8% of SC did not own slaves, matter of fact very few did (another reason this article is meant to inflame). Many Southerners have a different picture of the Civil War, take some time to read Lincoln's, Lee's and Grant's letters etc. pre the Proclamation and you can see another picture on how so many fought the War that did not own slaves.
The atrocities of the minority does make them any less atrocious.
Quote:
Do remember that Slavery was alive and well many more years under the Bars and Stars than it was under the Confederate flag. Also be aware and fearful of those hate groups that love hijacking something that may be near and dear to you. Shall we see the Christian Cross go to the wayside, too....could that be next? I hope not.
Are you equating the Christian Cross with the Confederate Flag? What sort of atrocities were committed under the banner of the cro... Nevermind.
With all the Native Americans who were massacred by union soldiers of the north, how come all the people are complaining about the evils of the south and slavery? The confederate flag represents their culture and I have no problem with the flag at all.
.
Andy Jackson (where was he from?); 'Trail Of Tears'.
Not just the North.
But the US- while slow- did learn, while the Confederacy represented/represents those who did not want to learn, or did not care.
The atrocities of the minority does make them any less atrocious.
.
It was observed as a fetish in Charleston from 1960-65.
And when did desegregation in the South start?
When did Strom Thurmond run as a Dixiecrat?
People today forget that owning a slave then was like owning a car today. It may have been registered in only the father's name, but the entire extended family used the labor.
Hence the number of people in S.C. who directly prospered from slave labor was close to 50%; indirectly almost all.
Andy Jackson (where was he from?); 'Trail Of Tears'.
Not just the North.
But the US- while slow- did learn, while the Confederacy represented/represents those who did not want to learn, or did not care.
Some people learn later than others.. Oh, I wasn't saying that southerners didn't take part in the oppression and murders of native americans as well. What I am saying is, why pin all the blame of oppression on southerners and their culture, when northerners also have blood on their hands.
Culture is cool, but really, we should end all this north/south separation crap. I still think Southerners have the right to their culture and heritage.
I think Southerners are learning. Are you telling me that there is still slavery in the South? Can black people not drink from same fountains as whites?
Yeah , racism exists, but I actually find more Southerners against racism then people here in the countryside of Oregon/Washington. Seems Southerners have got a bad name and are trying to make up for the past. However, in rural Oregon/Washington, the N---- word and K--- word (I'm Jewish, so it hurts), are used without any shame. Some of these same people have an American flag in front of their house.. Should we then remove the American flag because of people like this?
Oh yeah, in case you didn't know many northerners were racist against blacks back in 1860s. Even Abraham Lincoln said he never intends to consider blacks equal to whites. Backward thinking of the era was universal, some exploited it more than others.
The Confederate Flag was never a sign for a majority of southerners to celebrate slavery. On the contrary, many southerners suffered by the southern aristocracy who used slaves to do the many jobs that they could have done. Many slaves were tormented, but there was even a group of house slaves who lived a better lifestyle then some of the impoverished and practically starving at times, white southerners.
Dixie/Confederate Flag/Bonnie Blue Flag is all a sign of culture. Some Cultures did bad things. The Nazi flag is different, it was a flag based on an deranged ideology, not on a culture. It was a flag based on destruction and eradication of all humans who did not fit into a small group of fanatics. Even more deranged is that the nazi flag is warped version of Indian Hindu theology, which makes little sense to begin with.
Some people learn later than others.. Oh, I wasn't saying that southerners didn't take part in the oppression and murders of native americans as well. What I am saying is, why pin all the blame of oppression on southerners and their culture, when northerners also have blood on their hands.
Culture is cool, but really, we should end all this north/south separation crap. I still think Southerners have the right to their culture and heritage.
I think Southerners are learning. Are you telling me that there is still slavery in the South? Can black people not drink from same fountains as whites?
Yeah , racism exists, but I actually find more Southerners against racism then people here in the countryside of Oregon/Washington. Seems Southerners have got a bad name and are trying to make up for the past. However, in rural Oregon/Washington, the N---- word and K--- word (I'm Jewish, so it hurts), are used without any shame. Some of these same people have an American flag in front of their house.. Should we then remove the American flag because of people like this?
Oh yeah, in case you didn't know many northerners were racist against blacks back in 1860s. Even Abraham Lincoln said he never intends to consider blacks equal to whites. Backward thinking of the era was universal, some exploited it more than others.
The Confederate Flag was never a sign for a majority of southerners to celebrate slavery. On the contrary, many southerners suffered by the southern aristocracy who used slaves to do the many jobs that they could have done. Many slaves were tormented, but there was even a group of house slaves who lived a better lifestyle then some of the impoverished and practically starving at times, white southerners.
Dixie/Confederate Flag/Bonnie Blue Flag is all a sign of culture. Some Cultures did bad things. The Nazi flag is different, it was a flag based on an deranged ideology, not on a culture. It was a flag based on destruction and eradication of all humans who did not fit into a small group of fanatics. Even more deranged is that the nazi flag is warped version of Indian Hindu theology, which makes little sense to begin with.
THe South's culture worked people to death for profit.
So did the Nazis.
Don't know what part of Oregon/Washington you're in- or who your friends are- but most people will laugh in your face if you try to say either is more racist than South Carolina or Georgia.
As far as Northern racism, yes, by today's standard they were terribly racist, but again:
Which side's soldiers died trying to end slavery?
Which side's soldiers died trying to keep slavery?
THe South's culture worked people to death for profit.
So did the Nazis.
Don't know what part of Oregon/Washington you're in- or who your friends are- but most people will laugh in your face if you try to say either is more racist than South Carolina or Georgia.
As far as Northern racism, yes, by today's standard they were terribly racist, but again:
Which side's soldiers died trying to end slavery?
Which side's soldiers died trying to keep slavery?
It's that simple.
Geechie, have you ever been to some rural parts of Oregon/Washington? If you haven't you may not be inclined to say they are more/less racist than the South. FYI, there is almost no minorities in rural Oregon/WA, go figure? Its total hickville and there is no shame of any past wrongdoings. They use to lynch and hang blacks and have KKK marches in Oregon and Washington.
Which side died to end slavery? Neither.. Native americans were wiped out and thrown off their homelands even after the civil war by both sides. BOth are guilty of bloodshed and murder. The south would not have kept up their slavery as the entire world was becoming enlightened, but the southern bureaucracy was lagging behind. For some reason there is still a lot more black poeple in the south then the north. If it was so horribly awful, they could have all just ran away. In case you didn't notice, there isn't very many Jews left in Poland, Belarus or Ukraine were many of my relatives hail from.
Did I support the confederacy in the Civil War? Heck NO!! That doesn't mean they should be denied of their culture and symbols. The confederates are the southern nations, a good majority of them serve in our armed forces and protect our country now. Many of them have black friends and some even marry black people. Some of them are black themselves! The confederacy of 1860s no longer exists! But dixie is still dixie.. Just as new englanders will be new englanders.
People here in the west coast have absolutely no culture to speak of, so I kind of think having a "Southern" culture is cool. Although, I am aware in the year 2010 southerners are more or less as conformed as every other Joe/Jane American. Wal-Mart/mini-mall culture prevails now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
