St. Louis vs. Minneapolis?? (Chesterfield, Kirkwood: for sale, magnet school, salaries)

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by brownhound

Well I think you're being a bit over optimistic.

First, I've had people tell me with sincerity that there three (yes, three) school districts within 270 that are worth living in for schools: Clayton, Ladue and Kirkwood. In those cities, housing is more than $200k. By a lot. You might disagree, but that's a very common perception.

That is not the perception from any one with an iota of sense.

Second, overall it's a fair point even if you feel it was hyperbole. I met some folks who moved here last August who are exactly the kind of people I'm talking about -- public-school oriented, liberal, bright, entrepreneurial, living in the City (Lafayette Square). There was NO WAY they were going to send their kid to public schools in St. Louis after arriving in August.

That's a shame. There are some great magnet options if you take the time to pay any attention. If your kids could test into the gifted schools, they could get one of the best educations in the state.

So they're spending $15k a year, a major sacrifice to them, to send their 7 year old to a private school. Now they're talking about moving out to the suburbs because they feel the $15k a year (after taxes) is a major hit on finances that they can't afford to live in the City.

That happens a lot here. BoomBoxing says it wouldn't in Columbus (and surely wouldn't in the TC, where public schools are incredibly well supported, even in the most "inner" city). And that's a way StL falls short in the Midwest. I'm saying that to turn this city around, you need to compete nationally -- to be competitive with growing places like Seattle and the Research Triangle.

Who here is saying the schools aren't an issue? No one. But again, Chicago's schools are a mess -- anyone who doesn't think so should do some research (or DM Chet Everett a reg over on the Chicago forum) and they've made great strides towards being a fantastic livable city. Education is one piece of the puzzle.

Additionally, I have to laugh at the idea that no one moves here for our world-class institutions, gorgeous historic architecture and our fabulous urban parks -- my ex-boss in Chicago and his partner are doing exactly that right now. They sold their condo in Chicago's Ukrainian Village and are buying a place in St. Louis. They've been dreaming of doing so for years.

[chicagoerin]

kshe95-I think your name says it all. I have found that some of the biggest defenders of St. Louis have spent the vast majority of their life living here or in a smaller metro area and have not ever spent a considerable time living in a booming metro area. Please tell us, what metro areas you have lived in other than St. Louis and for how long? I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to make a point that unless you have lived elsewhere, you might simply not know any better or know the difference between what a thriving city is like to live in versus St. Louis. The "revitalization" you speak of is inconsequential..what St. Louis will have to have in order to thrive is job growth outside of manufacturing/factories (you can see where being dependent on this type of industry has gotten St. Louis). Yes, there are companies headquartered here that are not manufacturing based, but not enough for a city of this size and too many have moved out/are threatening to move out and not IN. I would love for someone to name three major corporations (let's say Fortune 1000) that have moved their headquarters IN within the last 5 years... aragx made my point when he/she said,
"I don't think it's a big shock that Columbus would have a higher percentage of people with undergrad degrees given that they have a major university with 40,000 students."... I said, "I guess I would say, that with Columbus being so much smaller, there must be a draw, as people get their degrees and stay. It appears that in St. Louis either fewer people pursue advanced education or they don't move back after they go to school elsewhere." It's hard to retain/attract the educated population to St. Louis for the reasons mentioned in this thread. I wish it were different, as it would make my job as a recruiter SO MUCH easier. But it' s not. Simple fact. If you heard the reaction I get when I call people in Indy, Chicago, MN, etc and ask them to consider a role in St. Louis you would understand. You are fighting an uphill battle trying to defend the "revitalization" of St. Louis.

[BoomBoxing]

^You really are being condecending. If you read her location you'd see that she does not live in the St. Louis area. Most, if not all, the regulars who are sticking up for the "revitalization" (nice of you to put it quotations like it doesn't exist) have lived elsewhere or are currently doing so. And many of us have lived in places a hundred times more exciting than cosmopolitan Columbus, OH.

St. Louis has 10 fortune 500 companies and many such as Express Scripts, Peabody, and Monsanto are doing very well in the down economy. Stifel Nicolaus, HQ'd in downtown is one of the fastest growing companies in the country. Along with Wells Fargo, Edward Jones, and Scottrade, St. Louis has the largest financial presence outside of NYC. That's a fact. The economy of St. Louis could be characterized as stable, not booming, but not in decline either.

[stlcitygirl]

^I was just typing this exact thing. The revitalization is very real, I live smack in the middle of it. Entire neighborhoods are night and day different than 10 years ago. My neighborhood is dramatically different than even 5 years ago. I believe STL has a bright future. It may not be booming like the Sunbelt city, but it has had steady growth and a stable economy.

[chicagoerin]

Boom-I lived in Chicago for 10 years, I feel I am "qualified" to talk about major metro areas. Also, it's what I do for a living. For a Fortune 100 company. In St. Louis. And, I now live here. Interesting that Kshe doesn't even live here, but feels qualified to be an expert on the current state of St. Louis. Hmmm...

Your comment about STL having the largest financial district next to NY is almost to0 funny to address, but I can't resist. I recruit for finance and accounting so again, it's my area of expertise. Not even close.

The largest percentage of finance jobs are not in STL. Per a recent article in AOL, the largest percentage of jobs are here: Top Cities for Finance Jobs - Careers Articles .

[BoomBoxing]

I never said you weren't "qualified" to discuss anything. I was responding to your notion that those of us sticking up for St. Louis have lived there our whole lives, and showed you that, on these boards at least, that couldn't be further from the truth. I could not find a citation where I recently read the #2 financial presence rating but you cannot deny St. Louis has a very significant presence in finance. The Wash U Olin school of business is very well known nationally too.

*edit*
RCGA is a paid regional cheerleader, yes. But this is a good overview of St. Louis business and some very recent success:

http://www.stlrcga.org/Documents/lib...es%20Email.pdf

[aragx6]

IIRC, it was that St. Louis has the 2nd largest number of investment firms, second only to New York. And given how well our investment firms performed during the recession, I'd say St. Louisans have a lot to feel good about there.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by brownhound

Stop being so holier than thou.

In comparison to the TC, I carefully laid out that St. Louis, although it has some strengths, has some serious issues with respect to public schooling, racial and economic divisions and a lack of visionary growth. Your take is that I hate old things?

When I make it clear that I don't hate old things, but that a living city is growing new things and that this city doesn't seem to be tackling its serious issues, I somehow ran into your vague briar patch of about me being part of the problem, whatever that may be.

So I'll turn it around, do you think St. Louis doesn't need to deal with the issues I've identified or do you think it's making substantial strides to solve them? Even better, what is St. Louis doing to be a true 21st century, to compete with established and growing places like Chicago, Denver and Atlanta, old-line cities that seem to be doing it better than St. Louis like Pittsburgh, and hot growth places like Austin. I've posed this question several times, and haven't gotten an answer. Yeah, CityGarden's sweet, but I doubt it attracts a single person under 30 to this town on its own.

First of all, knock it off already with the personal attacks.
You are new to this forum, so I'll let it slide this time.
Now, lets break this down for you.
You are perpetuating stereotypes instead of breaking them, thats what I meant when by you said exactly what I expected, is that clear enough for you?
And just so we are clear, the fastest growing age set in Austin is retiring boomers.
Look it up.
Its glaringly obvious that you are on this forum to stir things up, too ba you cant apply that same zeal to stirring things up in a positive way in STL.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by chicagoerin

kshe95-I think your name says it all. I have found that some of the biggest defenders of St. Louis have spent the vast majority of their life living here or in a smaller metro area and have not ever spent a considerable time living in a booming metro area. Please tell us, what metro areas you have lived in other than St. Louis and for how long? I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to make a point that unless you have lived elsewhere, you might simply not know any better or know the difference between what a thriving city is like to live in versus St. Louis. The "revitalization" you speak of is inconsequential..what St. Louis will have to have in order to thrive is job growth outside of manufacturing/factories (you can see where being dependent on this type of industry has gotten St. Louis). Yes, there are companies headquartered here that are not manufacturing based, but not enough for a city of this size and too many have moved out/are threatening to move out and not IN. I would love for someone to name three major corporations (let's say Fortune 1000) that have moved their headquarters IN within the last 5 years... aragx made my point when he/she said,
"I don't think it's a big shock that Columbus would have a higher percentage of people with undergrad degrees given that they have a major university with 40,000 students."... I said, "I guess I would say, that with Columbus being so much smaller, there must be a draw, as people get their degrees and stay. It appears that in St. Louis either fewer people pursue advanced education or they don't move back after they go to school elsewhere." It's hard to retain/attract the educated population to St. Louis for the reasons mentioned in this thread. I wish it were different, as it would make my job as a recruiter SO MUCH easier. But it' s not. Simple fact. If you heard the reaction I get when I call people in Indy, Chicago, MN, etc and ask them to consider a role in St. Louis you would understand. You are fighting an uphill battle trying to defend the "revitalization" of St. Louis.

Why dont you try doing a bit of research before you attempt to single me out?
I dont live in the Lou anymore, I'm 1000 miles away.
That just invalidates everything you say.
FWIW, I chose my screen name to identify myself to a certain age set within the Lou, not that I need to explain that to you.
Also, I would daresay I have lived in more urban areas than you, and not all of them are on this continent.

[stlcitygirl]

I stick up for STL and I'm not from here, and I've lived in a lot of other places. I just think STL has a lot to offer. My husband and I love living in the city, love the friends we have made and are NEVER bored. Our neighborhood has transplants from all over the world. We both have great jobs, and I like the fact that it's cheap enough to live, that if I wanted to stay home with kids, I could. We have turned down transfers to DC, Denver, and San Antonio. We expect my husbands company will eventually move us, but until then we are very happy here.
If you are not, I expect it's because you don't take in what the city has to offer. There is ALWAYS something going on, always. Instead of complaining on these boards, get out and find something that makes you happy.