Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually, I am quite impressed with the design. I am particularly impressed with the swept back facade/overhang over each bus bay, the contemporary-angled design (unusual for CNY), and the transparency of the building through the use of glass windows. It also seems quite functional from a pedestrian standpoint.
Though subjective, it reminded me of some of the new terminals at NYC JFK where I travel from time to time. In anycase, not bad at all. It is far better than the original rendering posted on the web-site that showed a brick transfer hub with a clock tower (with three academic institutions down Adams Street, not be a good idea! LOL
WSYR-TV (Channel 9) aired a piece on the Washington Station project last night and showed a nearly completed section of the building facing West Fayette Street. The building looks even uglier than first thought. When the design was unveiled I recalled seeing the other side of the building facing Washington Street, which looked more attractive. The gray section of the building to the far right in the picture (in the link below) has only three windows on each floor and looks like the hideous Red Cross building slated to be demolished to pave way for the CENTRO Bus Station. I also see the architect attempted to copy SU's Warehouse Building by incorporating so few windows and using a gray color scheme. Is it only in Syracuse that local architects copy the designs of adjacent inferior buildings when constructing new ones? Although the addition of windows and new paint to the former Dunk & Bright warehouse is a marked improvement, I would hardly call it a structure worth replicating. I understand why the architect incorporated a brick facade to complement the low rise brick buildings on the other side of Fayette, however the design looks like a massive hodepodge of mediocrity. Perhaps even more disturbing is the apparent setback of the building from West Fayette Street. Why would the city allow a suburban style building that appears to contain a paved surface lot facing West Fayette Street? Was it because the execs at O'Brien & Gere and Pioneer wanted to park their cars right in front of their offices? This scheme seems violate the purpose of having buildings that occupy the entire footprints of downtown lots. Also, what's the story with the overhang to the lower right of the picture. This building looks increasingly more like a suburban hospital than a "cutting edge" green office building in an urban setting. What was initially billed as a $90 to $110 million mixed-use project with student housing, condos, retail, and office space designed by a renowned NYC-based architect and SU alum has now degenerated into a $25 million box with a few office tenants that have relocated from elsewhere in the metro area. Although I am encouraged by DeWitt-based O'Brien & Gere's decision to relocate to the Central Business District, this project is hardly the transformative one that was proposed in late 2006. Considering more than half of the project's $25 million cost is derived from a combination of grants and loans from state, county, and city, Washington Station should have been more impressive and bold in both design and scope. The populist fervor that has enveloped the country is now making it even more challenging for local governments and states to fund economic development projects. Coupled with large budget deficits at all levels of government, Washington Station may very well be the last ground up development in the Central Business District for at least a decade. If this is the case, Syracuse missed a golden opportunity to truely transform an underutilized downtown surface lot and inject much needed life into the periphery of Armory Square.
Some of my assumptions regarding the building setback and overhang are based on observation and not necessarily on the finished product. Can anyone shed further light on the project and design? I am not an architect and am simply expressing one man's opinion. It does get frustrating when virtually every building that has been constructed downtown since 1980 has been boxy and hideous in design. The City-County courthouse that was built several years ago takes the cake with its lack of windows and white facade. I was walking on Manhattan's Upper East Side yesterday and became increasingly jealous with the plethora of attractive modern office, medical, and residential buildings with glass facades. Although it would be naive to expect a medium-sized, rust belt city like Syracuse to have newly built structures designed with the same degree of detail and quality that Fortune 100 companies and world renowned medical institutions have in New York or Chicago, Syracuse deserves better.
Perhaps even more disturbing is the apparent setback of the building from West Fayette Street. Why would the city allow a suburban style building that appears to contain a paved surface lot facing West Fayette Street? Was it because the execs at O'Brien & Gere and Pioneer wanted to park their cars right in front of their offices? This scheme seems violate the purpose of having buildings that occupy the entire footprints of downtown lots. Also, what's the story with the overhang to the lower right of the picture.
To at least allay one of your fears, i actually believe it's not setback from the street. The West Fayette Street side is actually still the open surface parking lot (i don't think it's part of the washington station property). I believe if the Marriot hotel project ever kicks off, it would fill up the entire lot and be butted right up against the Washington Station building.
What really gets me mad about all of these construction projects lately is the gratuitous use of 'grey'... the Carousel Mall expansion, Center of excellence building, and washington station. I remember watching them all being built, and being excited that syracuse was seeing new construction. Then i watch in horror for the final 2 months of each project as they put up grey panel after grey panel after grey panel. I went back and looked at all the CoE renderings and notice they don't show any renderings of the view from 690, which is what 80% of syracuse residents will ever see...a big grey depressing wall. Although the other side of the building, facing south towards Genesee looks nice.
To at least allay one of your fears, i actually believe it's not setback from the street. The West Fayette Street side is actually still the open surface parking lot (i don't think it's part of the washington station property). I believe if the Marriot hotel project ever kicks off, it would fill up the entire lot and be butted right up against the Washington Station building.
What really gets me mad about all of these construction projects lately is the gratuitous use of 'grey'... the Carousel Mall expansion, Center of excellence building, and washington station. I remember watching them all being built, and being excited that syracuse was seeing new construction. Then i watch in horror for the final 2 months of each project as they put up grey panel after grey panel after grey panel. I went back and looked at all the CoE renderings and notice they don't show any renderings of the view from 690, which is what 80% of syracuse residents will ever see...a big grey depressing wall. Although the other side of the building, facing south towards Genesee looks nice.
I totally agree. I too was disappointed with the view of the COE from I-690. Even fewer people will notice the glass side of the COE if I-81 is completely removed through the city be it above ground, below ground, or at ground level. I was under the impression that the Marriott project was to be developed across the street from Washington Station at Washington Street and South Clinton (between the Washington Station and the NIMO Building) as opposed being sandwiched between Washington Station and West Fayette. During Christmastime the project looked much better without the grey. As I see the final touches, I wish the land would have sat undeveloped until a project with a better design and more height was proposed. It seems once again, Syracuse blows every opportunity to improve its appearance at street level. Since the Historic Tax credit bill was watered down and made useless in the 11th hour by the Paterson Administration, I'm doubtful we'll see any progress with the Pike Block and Dey's Building projects anytime soon as both projects planned to utilize the historic tax credit in addition to the litany of other state grants that were awarded. The charade press conference on Saturday with Gillibrand and Maffei regarding a proposal to include an historic tax credit at the federal level is simply window dressing and will not garner enough to pass an increasingly partisan and polarized congress. Plus, the absence of a tax credit at the state level, still places NY at a competitive disadvantage to attract national or out-of-state developers as other states already have historic tax credits that would be combined with any federal credit.
RR- I believe the NYS historic tax credit passed. How do you mean it was "watered down"?
It was passed, however developers have rendered it useless since you cannot sell the credits. Now I see some agreements have been made the credit more viable for developers, however the revised legislation is being held hostage with budget negotiations. Here is an update from YNN in Buffalo: Historic tax credit delayed - YNN, Your News Now
I'll second that idea that the Marriott is to be built at the corner of Clinton and Fayette; understandable to not have too many windows on the south side of Washington Square, since they won't get much sunlight once the new building is completed (though it is pretty aesthetically lacking right now, as you mentioned).
I do, however, believe that Washington Square is going to have some surface parking on-site, which should be unacceptable in an urban setting. In a city with no leadership that allows the street grid to be chopped up and public rights-of-way abandoned (see emergency room expansion at St. Joseph's hospital), though, this is hardly surprising.
Since the Historic Tax credit bill was watered down and made useless in the 11th hour by the Paterson Administration, I'm doubtful we'll see any progress with the Pike Block and Dey's Building projects anytime soon as both projects planned to utilize the historic tax credit in addition to the litany of other state grants that were awarded.
I can personally attest to the fact that the Dey's building is progressing! I live in the loew's building across the street and i can see them putting up walls and building up the apartments on the top floor through the windows.
Last i heard Pike Block construction starts summer of this year, and completes 2011 when the bus station (hopefully) is complete.
"The start of construction on a 175-room Marriott Hotel in Armory Square has been pushed back until spring to take advantage of falling steel prices and obtain more favorable financing terms, the developer said today.
Richard Sykes Jr., of RHS Holdings LLC, said he had planned to begin construction of the $31 million hotel this fall on the northwest corner of South Franklin and West Fayette streets."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
