Texas; is it part of the South or the Southwest? (Houston: garden, discount)

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

Also think about the most stereotypical images.......the most stereotypical images of the South is a classic plantation with an alley of live oak trees dropping with Spanish moss, with large front porches. The most classic image of Texas is cowboys riding through the plains or the desert. That image of Texas is a lot more western than southern.

That was a deliberate image Texas promoted in the 20th century to try to distance themselves from their southern roots and seem more open. Also, cowboys were very in at the time.

Texas has a great history of cowboys and all that, but the vast majority of the culture as well as the main population centers are "Southern"

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

I know native Texans who call Californians "Yankees". Thats a very southern thing to do. People from other regions don't do that.

Yup. When we first moved here, we got pretty close with a neighbor who is the most Texan of Texans. We would help each other out quite frequently with property maintenance (roughly 6-8 acre plots), and after observing my ability with shooting (both having back yard shooting ranges), my use of a chainsaw, and general work ethic, he commented “you might be a yankee, but you’re not a damned yankee!”. You’d have to know him to know that’s a compliment, lol.

[MrJester]

Dallas seemed thoroughly Southern to me, felt far more like Atlanta than it did like LA.

I'd say that the four major metros of Texas are more Southern than Southwestern. West of the I 35 is where it becomes increasingly Southwestern.

Although, a lot of people I talked to when I was in California thought of the entire Texas as this desert southwestern state, when it's really only West Texas and the Panhandle that's like that. They were surprised when I told them that Houston has the climate of Florida.

[ABQConvict]

The only part of Texas that can be called part of the Southwest is the Trans Pecos region around El Paso.

West Texas, and indeed even the eastern 1/3 of New Mexico, is part of the Great Plains region which has its own history and culture apart from the Southwest which is characterized by Native American and Spanish colonial (not to be conflated with Mexican) historical and cultural developments.

The Southwest is defined in great part by its distance from Texan influence as well as distance from the cultural developments and influence of Mexico and the west coast. What makes the Southwest its own region is how it developed in isolation from cultural trends in other parts of America.

To call Texas, as a whole, part of the Southwest would belie that definition.

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Most New Englanders will tell you they are a New Englander...whats your point? Does that not make them Northerners? Its a particular type of Northerner, just like Texan or Cajun are a type of southern.

Call an Irishman or a Scott... British, that's my point.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

Just curious though, how far back in history do you have to go for this line of logic end? At what point would you say a diaspora has intermixed with other populations enough to be considered its own distinct culture? The South was largely settled by English-descended peoples, speaks English, and typically votes in line with the Anglo-elite's interests out of reactionary local pride. Does that mean the South is really just England with some African influences?

And what about the other 47% of Texans who don't have ancestral ties to the South (assuming all white and black people identify as Southern)? Did they abandon their cultures and adopt Southern culture, or are they introducing their ideas and mixing with Southern culture to create something new?

I don't think it is a set specific amount of time....and yes, I would say Texas Culture has alot of roots in Scotch Irish and English culture. WASP culture is still the dominate culture in the state.

Well all culture changes over time....Do you think the majority of people who live in NYC have long ties in NYC? No, but that doesn't mean NYC is no longer northern or that NYC no longer has the NYC culture...

No regional culture is exactly as it was 100 years ago...the national culture has changed a good deal as well.

Texas culture is different than 50 years ago...it is still a subset of southern culture.

I don't think that is a bad thing either....southern culture has pros and cons, but over all I like it.

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

That was a deliberate image Texas promoted in the 20th century to try to distance themselves from their southern roots and seem more open. Also, cowboys were very in at the time.

Texas has a great history of cowboys and all that, but the vast majority of the culture as well as the main population centers are "Southern"

A deliberate image Texas promoted, or Hollywood?? In the early part of the 20th century, the population of Texas was roughly 4.5 million and to your point, many of them did have southern influences; therefore you think they were trying to distance themselves from their "southern roots"? I doubt there was even such a discussions. The Cowboy way of life was, for all intent and purposes, invented here and movies were made about Cowboys riding on high plains probably filmed in California or Arizona. Either way, we have the dessert high plains, mountains, rolling hills, piney woods or prairie lands to meet whatever you think Texas might be. Texans did not have to pretend or shame itself from anything and we don't today.

I know the over the top Texas pride things irks you. Most people who have lived or moved here and have been here for any extended period time embellish this state's pride that many people wear on their sleeves. That's why we say it's the best place on earth or everything is bigger. If you think it's goofy or silly or whatever your comeback argument might be, don't tell the people who are from here (either born or got here as fast as they could) what Texas is. Yippee-ki-yay

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

A deliberate image Texas promoted, or Hollywood?? In the early part of the 20th century, the population of Texas was roughly 4.5 million and to your point, many of them did have southern influences; therefore you think they were trying to distance themselves from their "southern roots"?

You should read some more Texas history because, yes. Fehrenbach discussed that in his definitive book on Texas history.

'Gone to Texas' by Randolph B. Campbell is a great, more modern book on Texas history...what I am talking about is even discussed a little bit in this Cron Piece.

https://www.chron.com/life/article/G...ll-2128091.php

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

I doubt there was even such a discussions. The Cowboy way of life was, for all intent and purposes, invented here and movies were made about Cowboys riding on high plains probably filmed in California or Arizona. Either way, we have the dessert high plains, mountains, rolling hills, piney woods or prairie lands to meet whatever you think Texas might be. Texans did not have to pretend or shame itself from anything and we don't today.

Cowboys were not invented in Texas. They are from south of the border. As far as developing "American Cowboy Culture" Sure, Texas had an important part in that as did many other states west of the Mississippi.

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

I know the over the top Texas pride things irks you. Most people who have lived or moved here and have been here for any extended period time embellish this state's pride that many people wear on their sleeves. That's why we say it's the best place on earth or everything is bigger. If you think it's goofy or silly or whatever your comeback argument might be, don't tell the people who are from here (either born or got here as fast as they could) what Texas is. Yippee-ki-yay

Ignorance irks me. People being proud and bragging about something that they don't know much about when it actually comes down to it is what bugs me.

I honestly like Texas alot and I've never given anyone grief for any place that they said "Hey, to me Texas is great" vs poorly traveled people claiming with absolute certainty that this is the greatest place in the world objectively.

[txtea]

37 pages of opinions and ya'll are still arguing where Texas is?
Texas is a huge state spread across the middle of our country. There is no dividing line on what's south, southwest, or any other region. This is Texas...a whole 'nuther country. Take it for what it is.

[C24L]

Originally Posted by MrJester

Dallas seemed thoroughly Southern to me, felt far more like Atlanta than it did like LA.

I'd say that the four major metros of Texas are more Southern than Southwestern. West of the I 35 is where it becomes increasingly Southwestern.

Although, a lot of people I talked to when I was in California thought of the entire Texas as this desert southwestern state, when it's really only West Texas and the Panhandle that's like that. They were surprised when I told them that Houston has the climate of Florida.

even a lot of West Texas and the panhandle is not desert.Its only the Trans-Pecos thats desert,Mr.Jester.