Texas; is it part of the South or the Southwest? (Houston: trees, buildings)

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by tcualum

My stomach is thankful to all of the immigrants who made such wonderful things as chicken fried steak, pulled pork kolaches, and breakfast tacos possible.

And there you have it. Thank you tcualum!

[jcp123]

Short answer: it depends.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by turf3

Why is it so damn difficult for some people to understand and accept that Texas, by its influences from Mexico, Germany, the Old South, and the Southwest, has evolved into something that is none of these

Mexican influence is always going to be strong, because of its proximity to Texas

Based on wikipedia, 25% of Mexican Americans in the US live in Texas
And I bet a large percentage of them are born in Mexico

[turf3]

Let's consider neighboring states.

1) the Old South (Virginia, Carolinas, Georgia, northern Florida, Alabama, Mississippi) had 200 years of black slavery and plantation culture before the Civil War. Texas only had the period between 1845 and 1860. There is almost no Spanish influence in that part of the country.

It's a trivially obvious statement to point out that a large number of immigrants to Texas in the 19th century came from the Old South - they were next door so to speak, and East Texas was somewhat suited to similar agriculture. But they were not a dominating influence; they were one of many.

2) Louisiana has a dominating French influence, both the Catholic and the Protestant (Cajun). Other than the far southeast corner of Texas, this is largely absent.

3) New Mexico, Arizona, and California had a dominating long term Spanish influence through the missions, whereas the Spanish missions did not thrive in Texas. On the other hand they had no tradition of black slavery or extensive row crop plantation agriculture as eastern Texas had to some extent.

The Indian influence is also strong in NM and AZ while it is small in TX.

Texas is distinct from these areas especially the part of NM west of the Rio Grande and Arizona and CA.

4) Oklahoma was largely unpopulated till late in the 1800s and was called "Indian Territory". If anything, modern Oklahoma culture is influenced by Texas far more than the other way round.

The distinct Texas culture draws from the Old South, from Spain and Mexico, and from the German and Czech influences (which were also involved in Mexico) - but it's none of these. It's just Texas.

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by turf3

Let's consider neighboring states.


The distinct Texas culture draws from the Old South, from Spain and Mexico, and from the German and Czech influences (which were also involved in Mexico) - but it's none of these. It's just Texas.

Agreed, it's just Texas. Well said!

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Because most Americans think that it’s impossible for one place to be Southern and Southwestern at the same time.
I lost count of how many times I saw cowboys and Mexicans working together
While country or Mexican music was playing in the background.

In Texas you’ll find cowboys cooking Mexican food
And you’ll find Mexican Americans listening to country music

That’s Texas for you

Thats any state with agriculture for you.

[Treasurevalley92]

Texas is southern first and foremost.... and parts of Texas are western. i'ts a southern state with a western part, not a western/southwestern state with a southern part.

Yes it is a different sort of southern than the deep south, but so is KY or TN.

The majority of the Texas population lives in the part of the state that is southern.

Texas has lots of southern culture, sensibilities and history. Sweet Tea, Southern Style buildings, Southern Accent, Southern Style food on the positive side and Slavery, the Confederacy and Jim Crow on the tragic side.

As a Northerner and a Westerner it is clear to me that Texas has a Southern Culture Y'all say Y'all for one....the majority of the white people (and their slaves) who settled Texas were southern and brought that culture with them.

Yeah we have Tex Mex, but LA has Cajun food...that doesn't make them "Not southern"

I will give the "It's both" people that yes, the border towns don't feel "Southern" El Paso is South Western.

But even many of the Larger towns and small cities out west still have a southern culture...Take Amarillo, Lubbock or Abilene for example...you still get sweet tea and such out there...you still get alot of southern type protestant churches out there. (church of christ, baptists and methodists for example)

Texas has also always voted in a block with other southern states for the last 160+ years....that alone does mean they are southern...but is just additional evidence.

Texas is a Southern State with a few "Western" parts and a foreign border.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

As a Northerner and a Westerner it is clear to me that Texas has a Southern Culture Y'all say Y'all for one....the majority of the white people (and their slaves) who settled Texas were southern and brought that culture with them.

Just curious though, how far back in history do you have to go for this line of logic end? At what point would you say a diaspora has intermixed with other populations enough to be considered its own distinct culture? The South was largely settled by English-descended peoples, speaks English, and typically votes in line with the Anglo-elite's interests out of reactionary local pride. Does that mean the South is really just England with some African influences?

And what about the other 47% of Texans who don't have ancestral ties to the South (assuming all white and black people identify as Southern)? Did they abandon their cultures and adopt Southern culture, or are they introducing their ideas and mixing with Southern culture to create something new?

[turf3]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

Just curious though, how far back in history do you have to go for this line of logic end? At what point would you say a diaspora has intermixed with other populations enough to be considered its own distinct culture? The South was largely settled by English-descended peoples, speaks English, and typically votes in line with the Anglo-elite's interests out of reactionary local pride. Does that mean the South is really just England with some African influences?

And what about the other 47% of Texans who don't have ancestral ties to the South (assuming all white and black people identify as Southern)? Did they abandon their cultures and adopt Southern culture, or are they introducing their ideas and mixing with Southern culture to create something new?

It's only Yankees that constantly harp on Texas being a Southern state. Texans and Southerners (from the Old South) consider us Texans. Yes, there's a lot of Southern in us, but we're not really the same thing.


It's like the way Yankees will insist (despite all assurances to the contrary) that Southerners and Texans use y'all as a singular on occasion.

[NashvilleIsLife]

Neither, Texas is part of Texas..