Downtown Development (Toledo, Washington, Perry: appointed, lease, buy)

[Johio83]

YES!!! Good Lord I hope this happens! I've been preaching about the need for Levis Square to be merged into Promenade Park for years now, and I'm so happy to see the city feels the same way!

Toledo discusses upgrades to Promenade Park - Toledo Blade

[Johio83]

I know there are concerns over whether or not money should be spent on something like this right now, but I've always been a strong believer in the break-some-eggs-to-make-an-omelette philosophy. Playing conservatively is playing to lose, and you'll never make the gains you wish for without first taking risks. If we want downtown to thrive, we need to be willing to do things like this to make it a place people want to be.

Some are critical of it because Promenade Park isn't very popular as it is. But look at it, it's just a piece of grass. Turning it into an attractive park could do worlds for it's image, as well as the image of the surrounding area.

[Tobias C]

I think the whole Summit St area is pretty drab and im not sure what can be/would ever be done to make it more appealing. The only thing I like on Summit St is Fort Industry Square, but in comparison to everything else on the street, that stretch of buildings almost looks out of place. Perhaps Summit St shouldnt be the focus of any efforts at this moment, but I cant see anyone even walking down around that area (Levis Square/Promenade Park) just for the heck of it on a day that nothings going on. It could serve as a wonderful town square type of setting, but everything around it is garbage. Whats all on Summit St, disregarding Ft Industry Square........office buildings, hotels, an apartment building, and Imagination Station. For being huge, prominent buildings, that wont be going anywhere anytime soon, none of them are very pedestrian oriented. They dont complement the street whatsoever. It would be nice if these buildings surrounding Levis Square could renovate their lobbies/storefronts into useful business space the public would patronize because it would give people a reason to be near Levis Square. Im sure thats a pipe dream though.

I agree with your "break some eggs to make an omelet" philosophy. It always seems like people think that economic/financial incentives alone are going to attract business. They absolutely help and are probably the biggest factor for a lot of companies, but the shortsightedness of a lot of peoples economic conservatism is so frustrating. Some say that everything from intricate mass transit systems to maintaining flower pots is pointless if theres no one around to utilize/enjoy them. What these people dont understand is that the very infrastructure, amenities, lifestyle, and culture our downtown has to offer, can actually be more important than things like tax incentives or minimal restrictions/regulations. I think it boils down to just who exactly youre trying to attract to your downtown. Theres an increasing amount of businesses that are interested in planting themselves in a lively, progressive, urban environment...the kind their employees might enjoy in their free time...and the kind of environment in which their likely customer base/clientele might be found. Detractors will be content with attracting ANY business thats willing to move in. But, when youre trying to steer the progress of a neighborhood in a certain (positive) direction, it only makes sense to be particular about who you cater to. It makes sense to cater to the types of businesses who have both personal and business interests invested in the neighborhood. Theyre the most likely people to take care of the neighborhood and to contribute to efforts of revitalization. You want companies that take pride in downtown. Without something relatively impressive to show them to begin with, why consider Toledo, when you can go to NYC, Portland, Louisville, or even Ann Arbor.

End of rant.

[Johio83]

I think that area could be ideal as a town square. Fort Industry is essentially connected to it, and there's the steam plant on the other side that people have been trying to develop into condos for years now. Returning a focus to the docks (which it seems like this plan is trying to do, with the stage-turn feature to play to boaters) could make it a great gateway to downtown for water traffic. And across Summit is the Fiberglas Tower, which is a twofold benefit: 1) the Eyde company bought it and has plans to convert it into a hotel and restaurant, with plans for 15+/- floors of residential space in the future. 2) the lower level of the parking garage is slated to become a new YMCA.

Given all of these things, I think it's an ideal area to throw a nice public space for people to enjoy.

[acealive1]

something big needs to go downtown to kick the clean up and tear down of all the problem areas into high gear. i bet $100 if they dropped a wal mart or some other large retailer in the middle of downtown or even across from downtown on cherry where the greenbelt apartments now sit, the area would be alot safer because police would be forced to patrol.


or maybe even a mall or bunch of stores like downtown columbus

[Tobias C]

A Walmart downtown would be obscene.

However some major shopping downtown would be a justifiable reason for an increased police presence and it would be safer.

[Johio83]

Well downtown Toledo currently has a pretty large assortment of vacant buildings. Rather than talk about what could be built down there, why not throw some ideas around of what could go in the buildings we already have?

Some things I'd like to see:

We have a number of large warehouses that are currently empty. I think the ground floor of one of these would be an ideal place for a grocery store. I've wanted something like this for a while now, and after being in Chicago a couple weeks ago and walking past three of them within a few block radius of each other, it almost made me a little angry that we can't even support one apparently. I think having a grocery store in the ground floor of the Berdan Building with living spaces above it would be the best possible use for that space, and for downtown as a whole.

[ferraris]

What is the residential population of Downtown Toledo? Keep in mind that a grocery store doesn't necessarily have to be a supermarket. There's a middle ground between the rite aids and the meijers that I think could probably be sustained in Downtown.

[Johio83]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

What is the residential population of Downtown Toledo?

According to this site, the "city center" had a population of 2,387 in 2009, and I know vacancies in downtown have fallen from over 10% to under 4% since then. While that's not a very big number, keep in mind that it's dense. 2,500 in a suburb is a lot different than 2,500 in downtown area.

And you're right, it wouldn't have to be like a SuperTarget or anything, and the entire 1st floor of the Berdan Building would probably be a bit much. Maybe if half of it were a grocer, with the other side being broken up into smaller retail locations. A concerted effort like that would probably give it a better chance for success, too, with each of the stores being able to feed off of each other. It's like Starbucks - coffee shops in the same location (mall, plaza, etc) as a Starbucks typically do better than those that aren't, because they feed off of each other.

[Tobias C]

You can also figure that the market for customers for a grocery store Downtown, will be more than just the 2500 people Downtown, as many Old West Enders will support a downtown grocery as well. And if it should happen to be relatively upscale or at least have some special qualities about it that set it apart from the rest, at least a hand full of people from elsewhere in the city and metro area might come down just for that as well.

I still think it should be an Andersons or Churchills. Good quality and local businesses. And it shouldn't even be a full size super market. That's unnecessary.