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Great analysis. I do agree on most points, but they're not going anywhere, anytime soon.
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Originally Posted by mustang84
Great points again, Egobop.
I would say that some of Toyota's cost cutting has been to increase profits, but in recent years I would also say much of it is necessity. While Japan has subsidized some product development like the Prius, Toyota has been on building binge with three new US assembly plants and 1 new US motor plant built in the last 9 years. They had been sinking billions to develop new product lines like the Venza & all-new Tundra that have mostly been sales flops and have not made a return for them. They had gigantic cash reserves and bought into the idea that their growth would be exponential, so they burned through cash like a more conservative Toyota of 20 years ago would have never done.
They got cocky; press releases were full of subtle jabs at GM. They had a taste of success, but they wanted more...to knock GM off the pedestal it had held for 75 years. Their fans wildly cheered them on, while turning a blind eye to the cost cutting that was becoming quite apparent. In the background, Ford was quietly going through a significant management shakeup just so they could survive. Watch any Mulally press release; at least once, he will mention something along the lines of "our only goal is to return to profitability by building the very best cars and trucks that people truly want and value." They cut out the distractions like Jaguar and Aston Martin and began to take a deep look into streamlining product, improving efficiency, and catching mistakes on the factory floor. You know, things Toyota used to do.
I am harsh on Toyota, but only because they making the exact same mistakes the Big Three began to make 30 years ago and very few were calling them out on it until recently. I don't like many of their current products, but I appreciate the fact that they are the reason that Ford (and GM to an extent) woke up and are building much better product today. It has been a blessing in disguise.
Those that are saying Toyota will bounce back quickly from this don't know how serious the situation is. Toyota's problems run much deeper than the recalls. Their inroads into Europe have mostly been a failure, especially with Lexus. The Japanese market for new cars is shrinking as younger generations have little interest in owning a car. Their golden goose, the US market, took a bigger hit in sales than many others during the recession; last I heard, their reserves were down to $18.5 billion from $90 billion a few years earlier. The recalls are going to cost them even more as they expand in size and scope.
Going forward, Honda, Ford, and Hyundai are going to continue eating Toyota's lunch. GM, now out of bankruptcy and with fewer brands, will have more money for product development and will hold onto the market share they have. And to those saying Chrysler is as good as dead: don't underestimate the ability of Fiat. Fiat has been very successful in Europe, but have been unable to re-enter the US market after failing many years ago. Chrysler is a perfect synergy for them, and both parties will benefit in a big way.
Every manufacturer has had a recall at some point, involving many thousands of cars.
But now that a Japanese manufacturer is involved, all of the latent anti-Japanese feeling which has been brewing and simmering is now rising to the surface in a passive aggressive form.
What's going on here is racist paranoia and rhetoric masquerading as as a rant against big corporations.
It's very sad to see. Keep in mind that the big three domestics sold the US down the river when they destroyed thousands of people's lives here in the US for cheaper labor in Mexico.
Racist? Toyota has problems they need to fix. What's racist about demanding that? Their cars share the road with our cars. We need to be sure they are safe, which currently is not the case.
Great point above. Would any of us want to risk having a 100 mph runaway Toyota behind us? I don't think so. It has nothing to do with racism, more with people valuing their lives.
I know it's the minority here, but I don't get why a few people are so concerned about how to bring back Toyota's reputation. Even if Toyota's reputation stays damaged, the will still eventually settle into a certain niche.
How about we think about Toyota's victims for a second? You can bring back profits, bring back market cap...but you can't bring back people.
after hearing what i've heard today, no...i would not buy a Toyota. probably ever
i mean if i needed a beater and it was the best beater available, maybe. but otherwise, no
other car brands seem to have caught up well enough, and can offer what Toyota offers without the concerns about the product. or at least this kind of concern. i do not have children, but if i did could i really buckle them in knowing the car i just bought might not be safe?
and perhaps more then that, after today's hearing this could turn into "what did Toyota know and when did they know it?" it seems to many they have known it all along and did their best to brush it aside. this does not inspire confidence in me when purchasing a 3000lb vehicle i will be traveling down the road in at 70mph. the company just seems to stink atm
so my answer is no. cars are not so unique today that Toyota offers anything different then anybody else
We had a signed contract on a RAV-4 right before the recall and as fate would have it...the dealer that had promised to provide the car to our dealer.....sold it to another customer. Our dealer then had to find another car which took 5 weeks and then the recall was upon us. I was so glad that our deal fell through. I know the instances of sudden unintended acceleration are very rare but if you have ever spoken to someone that has experienced it, it can be very traumatic. We have a 16 year old who would be using our car and it was just not worth the risk nor did we want to purchase a car that would not be as "valued" as it was prior to the recall. Resale value is going to take a "hit" because of all of these Toyota issues.
I'll go back and read the other posts, but I want to comment without being influenced. In 2006 I bought a Camry LE that now has 40,000 miles on it. I never really liked the way it handles and am now wondering if I should trade it while it still has resale value. I never quite understood what all the hype was and why everyone told me to buy a Camry. I'm just not that impressed. Still, if I put $1,000 into it (need 4 tires, brakes) I probably won't have any major repairs, except for regular maintenance for the next couple of years, so it's probably more economical to keep the car.
Would I buy another Toyota? I'm not sure, since so many people love them. My sister drives a Scion xA (too small for me) and is thinking about trading it for the xD. In 2006 if you asked "would you buy another Hyundai?" my answer would be "no way" but they've really improved the quality. So it all depends on what happens in the future with the company.
By the way, I owned a new Pinto in 1976. I couldn't give it away. But people kept buying Fords, so this too will disappear.
If I had some of racist anti-Japanese manufacturing feelings, my replacement vehicle for my Toyota Corolla wouldn't have been a Subaru Outback. Same goes for any number of other people who do not like the Toyotas for whatever reason, but who have a Honda, Mazda, Nissan, etc. in their garage.
If I had some of racist anti-Japanese manufacturing feelings, my replacement vehicle for my Toyota Corolla wouldn't have been a Subaru Outback. Same goes for any number of other people who do not like the Toyotas for whatever reason, but who have a Honda, Mazda, Nissan, etc. in their garage.
Wouldn't they then be racist for not buying American or European cars?
Now can we all see that race has nothing to do with this either way? I can't believe that someone (not you) brought that up.
There was a time when the racism was real- I grew up in Michigan in the 70s and 80s, and know directly of which I speak. But the true globailzation of the auto market has blurred so many boundaries that it just doesn't seem to matter anymore. Of the cars we've had post-marriage, we're at two assembled in Michigan by an American-based company, one California-assembled Japanese car, one Indiana-assembled Japnaese car, and one German-German car that assembles most of their cheaper models in Brazil and Mexico these days.
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Toyota has problems they need to fix. What's racist about demanding that? Their cars share the road with our cars. We need to be sure they are safe, which currently is not the case.
