Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is very refreshing to me, that for the first time in my life, the people of the USA are standing up against the tyranny of the police state and saying enough is enough. If the German people in the 1930s had done the same thing, WWII and the Holocaust would never have happened.
Tyner (the 'junk' man) makes two very valid points. If anybody except the government had subjected him to groping, it would have been a felony assault. And if the police in the street had detained him under the same circumstances, they would have been required to show reasonable suspicion of guilt.
There is an interesting series of old cases, from the pre-aircraft era, that I believe could apply to the TSA:
CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.
CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
Our right to travel in the USA is being unconstitutionally denied by the TSA, pursuant to the Patriot Act. And together, we are taking a stand. We could have prevented all wars in our lifetime the same way, but no Americans speak out until they become the victims themselves. "When they came for the Jews, I was not a Jew, so I said nothing".
Like the sexual groping, waterboarding would be torture if done by anyone besides the government. Where will they stop?
Wouldn't let me rep you but will come back and try again later.
The sad part is that it took SO long. The Patriot act had massive possibilities from the start. Most people didn't want to hear. Now we see the results as time has gone by. For once its close up and personal and people notice. And yet some still can say its for OUR good....
Waterboarding is torture, whoever does it. Groping is groping and wrong. Simple. If you say it depends who is doing it you have abandoned standards because it doesn't matter. Wrong is wrong.
I have a feeling this travel season if going to be very different than last year and there will be a lot of heated conversation over the Turkey or the Ham.
Part of me wonders if "their" goal is to in fact make Americans' travel even less and if they are working towards not letting Americans even travel at all.
Part of me wonders if "their" goal is to in fact make Americans' travel even less and if they are working towards not letting Americans even travel at all.
Exactly! I'm glad someone else thought of this too. That's what has crossed my mind tonight, as they keep adding more and more ridiculous security measures. I thought "Gee it's as if they don't want us Americans going anywhere" I don't know if it's because the money we use to go elsewhere like International for example, that they feel like if they keep us here that it's more money in THEIR pocket, if they can get us all to cave in and just stay within the U.S. borders. I just know that I told my mom "Sure I could drive to L.A. or take a bus there, but once I try going to Sydney I basically have no option but to be forced to do one of these security tasks at-least once, because there's a bleeping ocean there." She agreed and said "Yea and that's where they get you." Since you can't drive over an ocean and a cruise ship takes a little while and costs more too.
As it turns out, we are actually flying on the 24th (as well as 17th), and plan on opting out. I believe it's the busiest travel day and if most people opt out, it will make the TSA's job a living hell that day.
I don't understand this mentality. WHY would you want to make their jobs any harder than it already is? I used to work at O'Hare and knew a lot of TSA workers. the majority of them are decent people who are simply doing their job. they KNOW passengers hate their guts and many don't like how difficult the procedure has become lately, but they don't make the rules. I've known a few TSA workers who've quit b/c of the grief they've gotten from passengers (cause, let's face it, a lot of passengers are worse than some TSA agents and will yell at anyone, even the random guy behind the counter at McDonalds). many just suck it up b/c it's one of the higher paying jobs at the airport (IIRC, it's around $15/hr to start) and many of these people need the jobs, esp. w/ this recession. it's not as if making the TSA agent's day a "living hell" will solve the issue at hand. you'll just be making one person's day a living hell
seriously, if you have an issue w/ the pat downs and scanners, bring it up to the appropriate people. having worked in an airport during the Thanksgiving rush, I can tell you it's not pleasant for anyone, and I doubt TSA needs the added chaos a protest would ask. if you don't give a damn about TSA workers, at least consider your fellow passengers who will likely miss flights due to this protest. think of the flight personnel who must get through security in a rush to get these planes off the ground and how having multiple TSA agents busy dealing w/ protesters will impede their jobs
not saying you should agree w/ this, but find a better way of addressing the issue
I don't understand this mentality. WHY would you want to make their jobs any harder than it already is? I used to work at O'Hare and knew a lot of TSA workers. the majority of them are decent people who are simply doing their job. they KNOW passengers hate their guts and many don't like how difficult the procedure has become lately, but they don't make the rules. I've known a few TSA workers who've quit b/c of the grief they've gotten from passengers (cause, let's face it, a lot of passengers are worse than some TSA agents and will yell at anyone, even the random guy behind the counter at McDonalds). many just suck it up b/c it's one of the higher paying jobs at the airport (IIRC, it's around $15/hr to start) and many of these people need the jobs, esp. w/ this recession. it's not as if making the TSA agent's day a "living hell" will solve the issue at hand. you'll just be making one person's day a living hell
seriously, if you have an issue w/ the pat downs and scanners, bring it up to the appropriate people. having worked in an airport during the Thanksgiving rush, I can tell you it's not pleasant for anyone, and I doubt TSA needs the added chaos a protest would ask. if you don't give a damn about TSA workers, at least consider your fellow passengers who will likely miss flights due to this protest. think of the flight personnel who must get through security in a rush to get these planes off the ground and how having multiple TSA agents busy dealing w/ protesters will impede their jobs
not saying you should agree w/ this, but find a better way of addressing the issue
I do understand your point re:workers. However, I would argue that this is the best way to bring public attention to the issue. It's borderline civil disobedience (of course, this is NOT illegal but it is the expectation of all people nonetheless).
Writing letters isn't going to bring public attention to the issue. This, if done in big enough numbers, might. Plus, rather than just "talk" through a comfy outdoor protest with a few signs, this is the actual "walk." And I think it says the following: we aren't going through your scanners. Period. Kiss my ass. I'm not so sure that a letter writing campaign ("bringing it up with the right people") would accomplish any of that. Plus, anyone and everyone can opt out of body scanners, so shouldn't TSA be prepared for that?
Sorry, I stand by my beliefs. Thanksgiving or not, I refuse to step foot into that scanner. My husband has been refusing for months now, since they installed these damn things at our airport. I just happen to be flying on the day before Thanksgiving, when this mass opt-out is to take place, which I guess sucks for them. I'll be opting out tomorrow as well.
As we see, writing letters does crap. The people making the news are the ones taking out their cell phone cameras and recording this abuse.
Subjecting people to untested technology (not to mention the nekkid thing - that doesn't really bother me as much as the potential for illness down the road) that doesn't even solve the problem...that is my biggest beef.
How does this address body cavity stuffing? What will they check next? Can we get a clue about what we're doing, people?
This is pure BS..scanners, subject an 80 year old granny to this but because we've become a bunch of politically correct wimps we can't "profile" and pull out of line someone looking like a terrorist
They "profiled" my son in Belfast, pea jacket, scruffy beard, watch cap..looked the part of an IRA dude...pulled him out of line, patted him down double checked his ID. He wasn't insulted and realized why they did it
Full body scanners are a waste of money, according to an Israeli airport security expert.
A leading Israeli airport security expert says the Canadian government has wasted millions of dollars to install “useless” imaging machines at airports across the country.
I don’t know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747,” Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.
That’s why we haven’t put them in our airport,” Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.
Full-body scanners are waste of money, Israeli expert says (http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Full+body+scanners+waste+money+Israeli+expert+says/2941610/story.html - broken link)
That's the funny thing, an Israeli airport expert is saying this. Israeli. If you know anything about them, they have the most secure airport in the world and definitely know a thing or two about keeping a secure area. They are who we should be listening to and when this guy says scanners are worthless and a waste of money, perhaps the US govt should listen and spend that money elsewhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
