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Raimy, at the risk of getting told not to let the door hit me ... (because I agree with what you wrote), I wanted to reply to your post. Add three years to your seven and you have us. Just wanted to say, don't feel "stuck" - there are a lot of options to getting out of here in this economy besides selling (renting your property for one...). Additionally, take a look at other forums for other states. I swear you'll see the difference in what is said and how it is written - it is unreal. Your post caught my eye as we deluded ourselves as well. After waking up and packing up we are going to be moving later this summer. It will be nice to put the rudeness and disrespect for ourselves and property behind us (seriously, if you love the four seasons as we do, check out the forum for states that qualify).
Raimy, at the risk of getting told not to let the door hit me ... (because I agree with what you wrote), I wanted to reply to your post. Add three years to your seven and you have us. Just wanted to say, don't feel "stuck" - there are a lot of options to getting out of here in this economy besides selling (renting your property for one...). Additionally, take a look at other forums for other states. I swear you'll see the difference in what is said and how it is written - it is unreal. Your post caught my eye as we deluded ourselves as well. After waking up and packing up we are going to be moving later this summer. It will be nice to put the rudeness and disrespect for ourselves and property behind us (seriously, if you love the four seasons as we do, check out the forum for states that qualify).
Seasons are awesome! It's 75 degrees and sunny here this afternoon and it's been such a relief to get out of the AZ oven before the summer really got started.
When we were planning on leaving Tucson we looked at several factors in selecting our new city. My wife and I spent our 20's and 30's living all over the US and overseas, so we have pretty established preferences at this point. We considered the quality of the schools, the diversity of the local economy, our preference for a strong urban core, light rail, arts and entertainment, a full range of professional sports, and having all 4 seasons. We also only considered cities that were fairly affluent and well maintained.
Believe it or not, there were many cities to choose from, even with our picky selection criteria. Last summer we traveled across the US and visited several of our "option" cities. We found one we like and moved there this last April. When you are looking at where to move to, my advice is to make a list of what matters most to you in a community and then open up the map and visit some places that you think might fit. There are so many great places to live in the US (and Europe). It really depends on your preferences. Even Tucson is heaven to some. Some people even love Phoenix!
And don't let the Tucson pep club that's on this forum bother you. Most of the pro-Tucson folks on this board recognize that there are issues with Tucson, as with all cities, and they often discuss them. I read a post earlier by Sierra and Chorizo (both regular defenders of Tucson) in which they rightfully went after their city council. I think they just get tired of people (like me) who tend to point out the problems more often than the virtues of Tucson. But that's the point of this forum, to have discussions on issues and present your opinions. Sometimes both sides get a little too partisan in their views, but that normally passes. In fact, there was a time back in the Spring that I was really ticked off at some of the problems in Tucson and I was unquestionably overly zealous in my prosecution of the city. Sometimes when you are in the moment, it's hard to separate your frustration with some aspects of the city's policies that infuriate you and the reality that Tucson has its virtues as well. A couple of people on this forum really lit into me, and in retrospect, I deserved it. No harm, no foul. But for all of their "don't let the door hit ya" comments, only a couple of them actually get personal and carry on the discord indefinitely. The others just love Tucson and feel compelled to defend it. Nothing wrong with that! Besides, without them, I wouldn't have anyone to disagree with over whether or not a used blanket sale on the sidewalk outside TCC qualifies as a real city festival. I suppose if they are washed first...
Good luck with your move! Hope you find what you are looking for!
I read a post earlier by Sierra and Chorizo (both regular defenders of Tucson) in which they rightfully went after their city council. I think they just get tired of people (like me) who tend to point out the problems more often than the virtues of Tucson.
Ha-ha, this has to be the joke of the day! Whoever knows me or at least has read my posts on the local forums will get a great belly laugh out of it!
Tucson would not be my first choice of a place to live by any stretch of the imagination, but I acknowledge its advantages as well as the fact that some people love it. That’s a personal preference and a factor of favored lifestyle and prior experiences, regardless of whether it’s based on comparison or the lack of it. Many of my own grievances are actually not even Tucson-specific per se; they are US-specific. I've said what I've had to say about it on this forum and just don't feel the need to repeat it ad nauseam. The other difference between me and you and your supporters is that I'm an objective person and I would strike down both outrageous praises AND ridiculous lies.
The other difference between me and you and your supporters is that I'm an objective person and I would strike down both outrageous praises AND ridiculous lies.
^^^
Note to readers: statement from the same 'objective' person who was contradicted factually but still won't accept it. Now that's what I call objectivity!
and yes, i have lived in los angeles before and had the time of my life. the diff with cali is THE PEOPLE. smart, energetic, funny, aggressive, and hip. there's more i am forgetting.
I know plenty of smart, energetic, funny, aggressive and hip people that live in Tucson. You are also forgetting cultured, classy, spirited, outdoorsy, well traveled, witty, artistic, talented, optimistic, athletic, nerdy, individual, etc.
In fact, I love nothing more than being surrounded by all those smart, energetic, funny, aggressive, hip, cultured, classy, spirited, outdoorsy, well traveled, witty, artistic, talent, optimistic, athletic, nerdy and individual people that I know here in Tucson.
Especially on beautiful evenings in November, poolside. Drinking wine and enjoying the company. It's fun to call my family in PA and NJ and say, "Oh, what? Your huddled inside freezing? There's no electricity due to a storm? You have snow to shovel before attempting to get to work tomorrow? Oh, that does suck. Well, I'm enjoying some wonderful wine on the patio. It's a beautiful evening. Wish you were here."
Ha-ha, this has to be the joke of the day! Whoever knows me or at least has read my posts on the local forums will get a great belly laugh out of it!
Tucson would not be my first choice of a place to live by any stretch of the imagination, but I acknowledge its advantages as well as the fact that some people love it. That’s a personal preference and a factor of favored lifestyle and prior experiences, regardless of whether it’s based on comparison or the lack of it. Many of my own grievances are actually not even Tucson-specific per se; they are US-specific. I've said what I've had to say about it on this forum and just don't feel the need to repeat it ad nauseam. The other difference between me and you and your supporters is that I'm an objective person and I would strike down both outrageous praises AND ridiculous lies.
My point was that you both defend those aspects of Tucson that you like, and point out the flaws when you see them. It was meant as a compliment.
As for the "your supporters" comment, the simple fact is that there are clearly two trains of thought among those people who regularly post on this board. The people that I agree with are the ones who think that Tucson has the potential to be a great town, but clearly isn't because of many factors. If Tucson had no potential, we probably wouldn't be so passionate in our frustrations with it's failures. There are things about Tucson that I love, but on balance, I think it's a very poorly run city with little or no effective leadership. I didn't see that changing anytime soon, so I moved on to a great city where my prefered style of living is achievable. Problem solved.
If anything I would argue that it's those people who are in the "Team Tucson" crowd who are the most personal in their attacks and spew the most lies on this forum. Anytime someone comes on this board and starts talking about a problem that they would like addressed or pointing out Tucson's shortcomings, they get insulted. It's that side of the aisle that tends to get into name calling and other juvenile attacks. Cases in point:
Here's a helpful comment;
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonyPony
Good thing you're a teacher... I'd hate to think what'd be coming out of your mouth if you were uneducated!
Or here's another helpful post;
Quote:
Originally Posted by .45acp
'Don't like it here...? Take I-10 in any direction... 'Bye!
Or yet another constructive comment;
Quote:
Originally Posted by fofinger
Well I suggest you take off before summer gets here, because if you got here in August you haven't really seen it yet.....oh and I might suggest you check out Mississippi....maybe that would be more to your liking.....don't let the door hit ya.....
It's a little difficult to try and discuss anything in a reasonable way when you have people posting irrelevant and plainly ridiculous comments like those in response to other people's constructive input. Of course they have a right to say whatever they choose, but don't expect those of us who are the receiving end of those kinds of comments to infer anything from them except that you are probably an angry old person with nothing useful to add to the dialogue. So you try to torpedo people's comments.
And notice that this thread is full of intelligent, thoughtful posts detailing the problems that people have encountered in Tucson, and equally filled with snarky insults from the “Team Tucson” crowd. But that is a fairly accurate reflection of exactly what’s wrong with Tucson isn't it? So many people there are convinced that nothing needs improvement and they are overtly hostile to anyone who does. Pathetic really.
So I suppose we will all just go on agreeing to disagree. Okay Team Tucson... let the personal attacks fly... I'm ready.
Last edited by LadyRobyn; 06-19-2009 at 08:18 AM..
Reason: Quoted portion of post has been deleted...
It is a regional thing. I grew up in the southeast (FL), and interacted with many graduates of schools in PA, NJ, MD, NY, and OH. There is no comparison to the lack of quality education that is here in AZ. Keep in mind that I'm also not just talking about people who don't go to college....look at this section of an email I and the professor I TA for received last night in regards to a class:
------------
I alao want to apoligixe to pro <removed>, WHaen I spoke to himw I was wearinf
the clothes I has on the night before. When I got home from the bars I GOT A
CALL (Night before clas) frim my brother and was told that not only he died
but he wanted me ti make a speech at his funeral. So in short sorry for my poor
demeaner and for looking like <inaudible> or someone who was up all night writting his
speech. Anywya Ill be back mext class. I have to look on the syllbus for your
office gours bec i would like to have a do over and talk about some wether and
climate. I look forwad to it
--------------
This is someone who was accepted to the UofA and is a student there. This was not a student-student conversation, but a student-professor-TA conversation. Also, this is far from the first time I have encountered this in AZ....however, AZ was the first time I ever encountered this.
I moved here with my son last year from Indiana. I couldn't believe the difference. Indiana has great schools compared to AZ. We lived in Ohio before that, and they were better too.
I think any state that is a retirement or vacation state has lesser schools, just my take on things. Also, the hot climate vs the cold climate.
But I don't see why someone who is going to retire, and you are lucky you can afford to, hates it here.
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