Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That being said, I went to St. Michael's school for middle school and found that the education and quality of the other students was much better than in the public schools.
I moved to Arizona as a for a teaching job because the economy in MI was killed by greedy cowardly companies whose profits weren't big enough. Before I list my reasons I will state that for a lot of people here this is ideal and thats great but its not for me and I just need to vent.
1. The housing costs: As a teacher housing in your district (unless its poor and crime ridden) is unaffordable, at least in other states if you work hard and put in time (do extracurriculars and such) you get paid for your time. Here if you put in 200 extra hours on a project you get maybe 500 bucks. I didn't go into teaching for the money but I did want to be able to get by and you can't unless you don't eat or don't have health insurance. I just left teaching for the healthcare field (and I was a good teacher and my kids had good test scores and I never missed a day in 2 years) and I don't regret leaving teaching here, but I know if I was somewhere where the culture and policy made me feel worthwhile I would have stayed.
2. The long drives: this goes to finding a decent apartment because I can't afford a house and there's no safe apartments (no major crimes) nearby, the public transportation doesn't go to my school because its on the edge of the urban sprawl.
3. The lack of community: everyone moves in and out so fast that you don't get to know your neighbors. I don't know any of my neighbors and the last time I tried introducing myself just to be friendly, I was given the cold shoulder and a look like I had 3 heads. I've been here 2 years and know none of my neighbors. Its hard living anywhere when everyone is so closed off you can't make friends.
4. The dry overpowering heat: You have to take a big bottle of water everywhere it seems especially because tap water has a weird taste. Skin cancer (yeah I know everyone loves the sunshine, but I like my skin better). You really can't go out and do anything outside from May-October because of the heat and oppressing sunshine. I like to hike and backpack but you can't for the majority of the year because you can't carry enough water. At least back in the midwest I could go outside for the majority of the year and all I need is a light coat here you can't go out because you can't carry enough stuff to survive.
5. Pollution: long commutes, no trees to eat up the smog LA, here we come!!
6. No trees. THere really aren't trees here, they're bushes. Trees are taller than houses and provide shade.
7. No grass, I understand why you don't have it, but there are days where I enjoyed laying outside and having a nap on a warm 75 degree day. Its kinda hard to lay on rocks and dirt. Especially when you have to worry about rocks and scorpions.
I can go on but obviously you get the idea, for me this is hell on earth. I wil say that I have known some good people and at least the public radio stations are good and the sushi restaurants are also good, but there's not much else that I can say is great. I will leave at first opportunity but unfortunately the economy is not allowing me to. For all of you that do love it here thats great and I'm glad you have a situation that you enjoy.
Ditto and then some. Listen to the lady or you will regret it. I find that, like my husband, men seem to have an easier transition. It's much more difficult for women. Would anyone else agree?
I'm a woman and fell in love with the place immediately. I don't relish the heat of July and August, but have learned to do much of my hiking very early in the day and am done and back inside by 11 or so. I wear sunscreen and long sleeve white cotton shirts, big hats....keeps the sun off my skin so no worries there...I live very simply and find I can maintain a comfortable life on a little less than a "teachers" salary. No, there isn't any grass, but we have many parks that DO have grass and I grab the dog and a blanket and my favorite book and spend many quiet afternoons under a tree in the grass reading...I own my own home in central Tucson, it's safe and I have great neighbors.
Life, like anything else, is what you make it and what your looking for out of it...I hike, bike, camp, fish, boat, pan for gold, visit and discover old ghost towns and volunteer my time with a non-profit agency.....Tucson has it's problems, every town/city does.....
Good luck with your move back to LA....I sincerely hope you find peace and happiness there.
Well, I have to say that #1 & #2 are essentially true for here in the Seattle area (in fact, the high costs aspects are even more pronounced).
In addition, #3 is also true in many (probably most) neighborhoods. The fact is, in todays world, that's the natural way of things in almost any large city.
It could also be said that although the heat may keep folks indoors down there from May-October, here in Seattle, the rain keeps outdoor activities rather limited (for most folks anyway) from October-May.
Well, I have to say that #1 & #2 are essentially true for here in the Seattle area (in fact, the high costs aspects are even more pronounced).
In addition, #3 is also true in many (probably most) neighborhoods. The fact is, in todays world, that's the natural way of things in almost any large city.
It could also be said that although the heat may keep folks indoors down there from May-October, here in Seattle, the rain keeps outdoor activities rather limited (for most folks anyway) from October-May.
Ken
You're absolutely right about that with Seattle in terms of cost of living, it is also unreasonably high, I prefer the midwest. I find though that in an enviornment like Seattle, even a cheap plastic Poncho can keep the rain off and block the cold and usually there is treatable water nearby. In Tucson, you are limited by the water you can carry, (usually 2-3 gallons) plus if you want to take a break in the shade there isn't any until you are close to the top of Mt Lemmon. I find its much harder to enjoy yourself in the outdoors here because of the lack of water and shade combined with the heat. Taking an overnight backpacking trip is almost impossible unless you want to take 4 gallons of water in addition to a pack.
You may be able to afford to live in Tucson on a teachers salary (approx. 30,000 a year) but housing payments are near impossible if you are on your own. Anything close to work is too expensive and anything far away requires more gas. Unfortunately this leaves only renting or getting a condo that isn't in the best shape. I realistic loan (not subprime or one of those weird loans), last I checked, for a house thats $150,000 (even those aren't that plentiful in Tucson if you want a good neighborhood) was about 1200 a month. Teachers salaries pay about 1500 a month. After you throw in gas (60 a month) car insurance (60 a month) and electric (I'd say it averages around 80 a month unless you're really efficient with A/C) that leaves 100 for food. Maybe my estimates are off but I really don't consider that a great situation.
Yes there is grass in the parks, but there really isn't much shade except at Reid Park, and if you live far away, you'll probably spend more time commuting than enjoying yourself at the park, it kinda takes the fun out of going.
Don't forget also that just one year ago Tucson was on the Forbes list of overprice commities right between New York and Boston if I remember correctly. It was on there because salaries in comparison with the cost of living are very low.
You're absolutely right about that with Seattle in terms of cost of living, it is also unreasonably high, I prefer the midwest. I find though that in an enviornment like Seattle, even a cheap plastic Poncho can keep the rain off and block the cold and usually there is treatable water nearby. In Tucson, you are limited by the water you can carry, (usually 2-3 gallons) plus if you want to take a break in the shade there isn't any until you are close to the top of Mt Lemmon. I find its much harder to enjoy yourself in the outdoors here because of the lack of water and shade combined with the heat. Taking an overnight backpacking trip is almost impossible unless you want to take 4 gallons of water in addition to a pack.
You may be able to afford to live in Tucson on a teachers salary (approx. 30,000 a year) but housing payments are near impossible if you are on your own. Anything close to work is too expensive and anything far away requires more gas. Unfortunately this leaves only renting or getting a condo that isn't in the best shape. I realistic loan (not subprime or one of those weird loans), last I checked, for a house thats $150,000 (even those aren't that plentiful in Tucson if you want a good neighborhood) was about 1200 a month. Teachers salaries pay about 1500 a month. After you throw in gas (60 a month) car insurance (60 a month) and electric (I'd say it averages around 80 a month unless you're really efficient with A/C) that leaves 100 for food. Maybe my estimates are off but I really don't consider that a great situation.
Yes there is grass in the parks, but there really isn't much shade except at Reid Park, and if you live far away, you'll probably spend more time commuting than enjoying yourself at the park, it kinda takes the fun out of going.
Don't forget also that just one year ago Tucson was on the Forbes list of overprice commities right between New York and Boston if I remember correctly. It was on there because salaries in comparison with the cost of living are very low.
You've been right on target with your comments in this thread. I think we have had similar experiences here.
I really hate being so negative about my hometown, but that's the reality. I know Ozark Nana loves the place, and I'm happy for her. I guess some people are better suited for it than others.
If you ever decide to go back to MI or the Midwest, let me know because I might be headed in that direction before '08 comes to a close.
Trading Las Vegas for Tucson, much cheaper places to buy. One needs to know the altitude factor living in the SW. I see Nogales is close to 4000 feet, 1300 feet higher than Tucson. So, it should be a bit cooler there in summer for a weekend getaway. Been to Nogales, Mx, love the city. There must be a nice hotel there to camp out for a weekend getaway. Currently, I go to Tijuana to camp out for a long weekend, same motel I've been using for 10 years, Nogales can't be any more dangerous than Tijuana, I haven't had a bad incident in Tijuana ever. I see there's other higher altitude places to get away to not too far from Tucson to cool off. And from Nogales one can jump on a bus and head south from there to Guaymas, Hermosillo, Chihuahua (love the city). REcently, I traversed the Atacama Desert in north Chile where they only get .01 precip. per year (driest desert in the world) where you won't even find a small cactus or desert shrub, ONLY sand. After seeing all that (and loving it) the U.S. Southwest is NOT desert, but semi-desert. Used to live in Phoenix for 3 years, no more of that incredible sprawl and cops who are out to get you if they even catch you picking your nose. I have done enough research on Tucson and, right now, all arrows point to Tucson. I'm not a nightclubber, not into fancy restaurants, big concerts, I'd be more than happy in a "boring" city where I can do lots of reading, sleeping, biking (on one of the bicycle websites I see Tucson has gotten a Gold award for making the city more bicycle friendly). Yeah! Las Vegas is less humid than Tucson (3.5 inches of rain a year opposed to Tucson's reported 11 inches) and I'll miss the drier air here (at 100 degrees with 5% humidity there's no need for A/C) and the taller mountains but that's about it. If you're not a gambler in Las Vegas, it's no more interesting than Tucson or Des Moines, Iowa, OR if you're a member of the working class who can only dream of having enough money to go to one of their $100 ticket Cirque du Soleil shows. I'm looking forward to my move.
Tucson is a very polarizing place: people really like it or really hate it-----and, the reasons either way are quite understandable.
For me: the place has all of Phx's drawbacks plus a few more.
If I were to tolerate lower wages coupled with relatively affordable houses; Kingman wins hands down despite its majer drawbacks (which are diminishing as time goes on).
Tucson is a very polarizing place: people really like it or really hate it-----and, the reasons either way are quite understandable.
For me: the place has all of Phx's drawbacks plus a few more.
If I were to tolerate lower wages coupled with relatively affordable houses; Kingman wins hands down despite its majer drawbacks (which are diminishing as time goes on).
Agree that people's views on Tucson are seldom indifferent. I'm in the love it category. I realize Tucson has a pretty large population, but it still had a mid-size town feel about it. The mountains are much closer than in Phoenix. Pheonix is so sprawled out and flat. Really, from my perspective, Phoenix utterly lacks the charm that Tucson has.
The only months that the weather is uncomfortable for me in Tucson are July and August (monsoon season); solely because of the humidity. When it's really dry (May, June) and above 100, I'm still comfortable. I still hike in the summer, in the afternoon.
I've lived on the NW side of town, near Oracle and Magee, and also in the foothills (Kolb and Sunrise). Both areas are really nice. I have a clear preference for the Kolb and Sunrise area. Just gorgeous up there. You're right there at the mountains. Trails galore.
Whether one likes Tucson or not depends on the things you value. I'm an avid hiker, and don't care much about the nightclub scene, Tucson actually offered plenty of stuff to do for me. Even had a little theater that I saw a few times. I found plenty of good restaurants. Mainly though, I loved the weather, and the scenery, and the opportunities to get out and up into the mountains (really, all over Southern AZ).
I found people to be friendly when I was there. There are those who will lament the lack of trees. You either like the desert or you don't. For me, Tucosn is a green desert, and it's a beautiful place. The difference between Tucson's 12" of rain and Phoenix's 6 or 7 makes a big difference in the way the terrain looks (to my eye). Vegas and its 3" even more so. Vegas' surrounding desert is like a lunar landscape. Tucson is just naturally much prettier. Plus, at 2,800 ft altitude it cools off MUCH more than Phoenix in the evenings.
So, for the things I value, Tucson is preferable in nearly every respect to Phoenix. But you're absolutely right. People seem to love the place or hate it. There's such a remoteness about the place, that if you don't love it, there's really no easy escape.
I realize that sometimes one's work requires one to be in a place they don't necessarily like. Miami, FL is like that for me. I'm really not fond of the place, and yet ended up being here for 6 years! No mountains, brutal humidity, hellish traffic. Pleasant winters though
I'll finally be in a position to move back to AZ next spring. Can't wait. In my view, you guys that are already there are so lucky. Funny that some of you can't wait to leave. Different strokes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I guess some people are better suited for it than others.
Moving to Tucson to retire
