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A work associate of mine was over there years ago to tke part in the Toronto "Walk" and enjoyed her time there Ulsterman. I have met leading lights from Canada and also the USA and Africa. An American lodge came over to the Glasgow Boyne parade one year and very smartly tuned out in grey trousers dark double breasted jackets and berets wish a nice badge and hackle - and regalia of course! Because far travelled they were put in behind the County grand Lodge leading the large march. Must say that the African Orangemen I met were very friendly and great religious people.
I must say in passing Vector1 to quote that song as if somehow passingly balanced is rather bemusing in a short sense. The song is praising those IRA rat bags to be direct so hardly balanced! As for old street songs that are mentioned when a wee lad I didn't know in one song where Fenians came from then discovered how evil the people of that label were and the stuff they did in the US of A. There was another old song word called "Tagues" and one today would discover it is not one conjured up by loyalist song writers but much derived from the Irish RC tradition itself! Growing up as a boy and young adult I was never conscious of hate in religious matters. Knew well we differed on religion and it's history but. In maturity I did feel it was wrong here in Scotland to have State RC schools as Protestant ones run by the Church of Scotland were given up to the State so qwhy should the vast majority of taxpayers pay for RC schools when we had departed that scene? Maybe years ago where there was friction that would have been gone if all school childrentogether??
[quote=rjhowie;55695620]A work associate of mine was over there years ago to tke part in the Toronto "Walk" and enjoyed her time there Ulsterman. I have met leading lights from Canada and also the USA and Africa. An American lodge came over to the Glasgow Boyne parade one year and very smartly tuned out in grey trousers dark double breasted jackets and berets wish a nice badge and hackle - and regalia of course! Because far travelled they were put in behind the County grand Lodge leading the large march. Must say that the African Orangemen I met were very friendly and great religious people.]
Yes RJ as this put's it it was a bastion but of course it was a time in the past. I read too that the Canadian lodges gave many men who lost their lives in the two world wars which meant many lodges folded
''Paradoxically, however, there were few bastions of Unionist sentiment more staunch than Canada. As early as 1870 Ontario had 900 Orange Lodges, pledged to ' resist all attempts to....disember the British Empire ''
I must say in passing Vector1 to quote that song as if somehow passingly balanced is rather bemusing in a short sense. The song is praising those IRA rat bags to be direct so hardly balanced!
Maybe you are reading too much into my comment as I never said it was a balanced song. I merely agreed with JMAN0war it was not a sectarian song.
I think you did the same thing with an earlier post of mine, but will need to go back to see what it was.
The Irish signing about the evils of the English and/or Brits is nothing new, but neither is it sectarian. I imagine not all songs sung by Unionists are sectarian either.
That said let me ask for an unbiased answer from you.
If you were to look at the marches, bonfires and songs by the two sides, which one tends to be more sectarian than the other?
Having said that, and though it's focus is on the "English", I cannot imagine the Unionists like the song. The question is why those guys would have broken out with that song to those young girls. Most are probably too young or disinterested in Irish rebel songs to even recognize it.
It's a well known rebel song.
It was probably sung at the girls to try and antagonize them as they correctly determined they are from the other tribe.
Ah-ha Vector1 you want unbias without looking in your mirror?! Anyway just to automatically always list the English re Ireland is not that balanced and we got a lot if Irish people up here just as down south England got. Anyway there is not a common sense idea that the song in question is passingly not bias when it includes a murderous bunch like the IRA. Anyway more Irish were murdered after independence amongst themselves than battle with us for independence. The Civil War outdid things in numbers. On a passingly lighter note what has made me laugh over the years is when the would-be religious experts going on about the two sides either forget or don't know that King William 3rd's Dutch Royal Guards in the Irish campaign and Battle the Boyne were RC!
Unfortunately the Irish eventual Republic was not able or capable of being a great place and was why they desperately in more modern times got into the EU to get the financial handouts. In time that improved their education, chances and modernisation but it does I am afraid confirm that they could not do it themselves from 1922.
You made a very concrete thing Ulsterman over the Orange Order in Canada and in WW1 they provided tens of thousands of soldiers. There were also in the Royal navy lodges on warships and here in west Scotland regiments that took their regalia with them. Just kind of sad that after 1922 in the southern Ireland area over 300 lodges had to close and today the remnant of around 50 still there! Something niggles my mind that about three years ago I came across mention that the driver of President Kennedy 's car when he was assassinated was an Orangeman in a US lodge (!).
The IRA, pre-1969 are revered as Hero's and Founding Fathers of the Republic.
Perhaps rjhowe fails to remember that his very own Queen lead a wreath and paid respects to the Irish men and women that died in the pursuit of Independence, commemorating the bold IRA.
Ah-ha Vector1 you want unbias without looking in your mirror?! Anyway just to automatically always list the English re Ireland is not that balanced and we got a lot if Irish people up here just as down south England got. Anyway there is not a common sense idea that the song in question is passingly not bias when it includes a murderous bunch like the IRA. Anyway more Irish were murdered after independence amongst themselves than battle with us for independence. The Civil War outdid things in numbers. On a passingly lighter note what has made me laugh over the years is when the would-be religious experts going on about the two sides either forget or don't know that King William 3rd's Dutch Royal Guards in the Irish campaign and Battle the Boyne were RC!
Unfortunately the Irish eventual Republic was not able or capable of being a great place and was why they desperately in more modern times got into the EU to get the financial handouts. In time that improved their education, chances and modernisation but it does I am afraid confirm that they could not do it themselves from 1922.
You made a very concrete thing Ulsterman over the Orange Order in Canada and in WW1 they provided tens of thousands of soldiers. There were also in the Royal navy lodges on warships and here in west Scotland regiments that took their regalia with them. Just kind of sad that after 1922 in the southern Ireland area over 300 lodges had to close and today the remnant of around 50 still there! Something niggles my mind that about three years ago I came across mention that the driver of President Kennedy 's car when he was assassinated was an Orangeman in a US lodge (!).
RJ don't know if you have already saw this but thought I'd put it up anyway. Its like a breath of fresh air amid all the political ducking and diving. Jim says it as it was. Don't think many would have the courage to tell the truth.
No had not seen that programme Ulsterman and my thanks for intimating it. I happen to have a high regard for Jim Allister and what he said was direct, honest and so dashed right. He is so directly honest sitting next that terrible man who in the media is portrayed as being a balanced and reasonable! Well done the TUV Leader.
I must also add that Sir Jeffrey Donaldson was I would intimate a very noted and direct speaker at the Glasgow "12th" Boyne Parade. Did manage to get a wee passing chat with him as it happens! Anyway still think that programme you showed here just confirms the political nonsense that a terrorist allowed to hold office can be tolerated routinely on the media and the more honest and truthful style of Jim Allister is excellent. I dare say that Irish folk in the South like their flag whilst the terrorist from the Republican corner use that in a corner that snipes at Unionists and their traditions. Kind of makes a mockery of what the creators of that flag thought passingly decades ago what it was to be for to cover both sides. On a passing note I am overdue for getting a twenty foot flagpole erected in my front garden to compete against a Scot Nat further up the avenue and that lot steal the Saltire as if just theirs so time to do my bit.
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