Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe you missed my point, or I didn't state it well.
Ireland, for all it's historical internal strife and squabbling among various chieftains had a common language, religion, and for the most part other aspects of a unified culture.
So in that sense, the comparison between Indians vs. ancient Irish lose the ability to maintain a good comparison.
As to your question posed about Scotland, I guess if we were only talking about a contiguous land mass, and the splitting thereof, I see your point.
I suppose since we are comparing America with Ireland and NI, or England and Scotland, one could argue that our taking by force of what Mexicans viewed as their land mass, could be compared.
The Monroe Doctrine obviously contemplated a future for the United States, without other governments meddling in our future affairs.
Thus a puppet dictatorship could not be set up by say France within our hemisphere.
There was of course the view of "manifest destiny" which not everyone agreed with, but that envisioned what the current 48 mainland states would eventually become.
Regardless, and aside from you Unionists being happy to live and own land in NI, what reason do you think a proper justification for the planting of Ulster in the first place?
More importantly, can that ancient justification (whatever it might be) cause the Unionist/Loyalists of today, to fight against a democratically drafted vote you'll all agreed could happen, via the GFA?
`
You either support the Scottish who wish to break away from England and the rest of the island...or you don't. Or have you some sort of in between dream.
The plantation of Ulster could be a people returning to a place they had once lived in. At the nearest point there is 12/13 miles between Ulster and Scotland and there has always been a connection between the two.
It depends if the vote is democratic. In the past it has been shown that votes were rigged and personation took place big time. There are videos of them boasting about the number of times they had voted and that was only the few who were interviewed. I'm fairly sure there were hundreds of others who did the same.
Ian Adamson and others have been saying this for years. The Irish were invaders of the island. As I have already pointed out Mount Sandel had proved this too
Even if that is true the Ulster unionist still only got there around 1600 and still genocides the native population
And of course the Irish republicans never attempt to genocide anyone.
This man was a Councillor and a Sunday School teacher...William Dickson
Ann Wilson Dickson 1/9/2020
This evening 38 years ago the INLA invaded our home 31 Broadway Parade, ( old Broadway Parade),by smashing the door in with a sledge hammer, they fired 5 /6 shots at Billy who was standing in our hallway talking on the phone to Councillor Eric Smyth, One bullet hit Billy missed all his vital organs, spun round and came out his back. Billy flung our vestibule door shut in their faces, they dropped a radio bomb they were planning to leave in our home after they had shot us both dead, then when the police and army would come in to investigate the crime scene the radio bomb would go off killing or maiming some of them. Billy should have got an award for potentially saving their lives. The INLA made of toward the Falls. a neighbour across the street Bumper Graham took Billy to BCH in his car, he went so fast the police went after him thinking he was the getaway car. The surgeon said the fact that Billy didn't drink alcohol or smoke helped to save his life. After a few days Billy was transferred to the RVH security wing. He spent another 3 weeks in RVH, when he got out we went to stay at my mum and dad's flat as our home had been bombed, my parents lived in our home with no living room ceiling, busted radiators, no carpet on floor as it had been saturated in water from the radiators, front wall of house was badly damaged and our garden wall was demolished. The first people at our door the next day was Seamus Lynch Workers Party and the late Thomas Passmore. My father and a work colleague cleared up the debris for me coming home from the hospital the next day. The then DUP leader Ian Paisley talked about getting a squad up to sort the house out for me coming home, alas it was only talk. We still suffer flashbacks from this horrific ordeal. Billy is very wary about opening the door to people he doesn't know and loud noises which he cant account for are very distressing. We were grateful to Billy Weir for taking over our children's work while Billy was laid aside. Our neighbours were always watching out for us. When my dad and I were heading up to RVH each day, one neighbour Robert Graham was out like a flash and drove us up to hospital. Another neighbour Ella Aston went with me to the BCH the night of the shooting. We are grateful to Almighty God for bringing us thus far.
Even if that is true the Ulster unionist still only got there around 1600 and still genocides the native population
^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullish Rab
And of course the Irish republicans never attempt to genocide anyone.
Aside from the genocide aspect Mr Bigglesworth brought up, I know it has been very important to you to claim Ireland was never unified under one leader/king.
While that has been true for most of Ireland's history (multiple chieftains of various parts of the island), in at least two instances, the whole of Ireland was united.
You use the English/UK system of monarchy as a model, but even then still deny any such Irish ruler was considered the ruler of all of Ireland.
While the individual chieftains might have ruled their province (i.e. states have their own governors) they all agreed that there was a national Irish ruler on at least two occasions in Irish histroy.
Why bring that up?
Simple, as I wonder when in your mind did the plantation of Ulster occured, and did your direct descendants have any claim to a part of Ulster (or any part of Ireland), prior to the plantation?
Ireland is one country, of course, but you have native Britons dumped there 400 years ago by a Scots king, where as in Scotland where you have Irishmen who support Celtic FC , who came in the 1800’s who now vote SNP. Just swap these tribes, and you will have two peaceful islands . End of
As a Yank, I just do not see any parable between Scottish Separation and Ireland Unification. I also think those that keep raising "ancient" history are just confusing the issue.
As a Yank, I just do not see any parable between Scottish Separation and Ireland Unification. I also think those that keep raising "ancient" history are just confusing the issue.
On one island some in Scotland are wishing to separate from England. Ulster did separate from Ireland. One hundred years of that separation will take place next year.
Aside from the genocide aspect Mr Bigglesworth brought up, I know it has been very important to you to claim Ireland was never unified under one leader/king.
While that has been true for most of Ireland's history (multiple chieftains of various parts of the island), in at least two instances, the whole of Ireland was united.
You use the English/UK system of monarchy as a model, but even then still deny any such Irish ruler was considered the ruler of all of Ireland.
While the individual chieftains might have ruled their province (i.e. states have their own governors) they all agreed that there was a national Irish ruler on at least two occasions in Irish histroy.
Why bring that up?
Simple, as I wonder when in your mind did the plantation of Ulster occured, and did your direct descendants have any claim to a part of Ulster (or any part of Ireland), prior to the plantation?
`
Any eejit knows that there was always wars going on between different tribes in Ireland. As I have said repeatedly the only time they came near to having a king for the island was Brian Boru but he was killed in battle.
I may have posted this before but it does tell it as it was. I am not going to be repeating myself over and over again to the same nit-picking questions
True wars and battles continued with warriors answering the call of Fine and Tuath even the great St Columcille fought at Cul Dreimhne in the battle between Connachta and the Conaill. Neither country nor province was united until after the British conquest of the seventeenth century.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
