Northern Ireland reunification with Republic of Ireland (must see, heat)
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the majority of protestants identified with the state , as the catholic population viewed the state as being unfair towards them , they then by extension viewed the protestant population as being aligned with the state
while its obviously more nuanced than that , its how the general narrative evolved
ruth dudley edwards ( a friend of unionism and fiercely anti SF ) has repeatedly said that unionists are hopeless at PR , PR is what creates a narrative in the media age
thats not me saying you personally are wrong , its me saying thats how most people view the subject and if you think the narrative is simply down to the irish population whinging so much , well its up to unionists to up their PR game because they havent won that battle, thats for sure , not even in the British mainland
Yes I agree the Protestants are not much good at presenting their side of things and the Irish Catholics are brilliant at it. John Ford and his films was a big help with Rio Grande and others ' Glory O To The Bold Fenian Men ' and the tears in the eyes etc. Even in more recent times its the same with Collins. I don't know of anything like that from the Protestant side. The Siege of Londonderry/Derry would make a great movie but there is no chance of that.
Agree with what you say about the Catholic population and their view of the Protestant population but have to add the different religions played a big part in it too. Long before the Easter Rising Rome had financed and blessed an army going to Ireland. The Protestants on the island have always been a small minority numbered in thousands while Catholics were in millions.
I don't think it would be a big deal to let us have this wee small part in the north of the island
Last edited by Ullish Rab; 10-24-2020 at 12:10 PM..
OnThisDay in 1990 the IRA murdered Patsy Gillespie, 42, married father of 3, Catholic canteen worker in army base used as a “human bomb” and soldiers David Sweeney, 19, engaged, Vincent Scott, 21 who was due to leave Army 1 month later, Paul Worrall, 23, engaged to German lady, Stephen Beacham, 20, father of 2 & Stephen Burrows, 30, married father of 1.
Patsy Gillespie was kidnapped & his family held hostage while he was forced to drive bomb into military checkpoint at Coshquin near Londonderry.
Bomb exploded when Gillespie arrived at checkpoint with him still in driving seat, killing him & 5 soldiers. IRA holding Gillespie’s widow hostage assured her he would be back.
its slightly unfair UR to expect someone not from northern ireland to know about who moved in or out from particular areas , i wouldnt know myself let alone an american
it shouldnt preclude them from discussing other aspects of northern ireland history
you seem to think unless everyone knows which traditionally protestant areas became catholic or vice versa , you arent entitled to an opinion ?
Thanks for your supportive view for all those who might not be totally versed in Irish/British history, but don't sell us Americans short!
The irony Irish Bob, is that I have given him examples, but he either chooses to diminish it, or has forgotten.
Still he acknowledges the example I gave in the post he responded to, yet seems to think that is not a good example of where Catholics were driven out.
If you have homes, businesses, etc. burned down, and you leave as a result, I think that classifies.
I don't blame Ulsterman ( why he changed his name I am unsure, but I preferred the original ) for defending his position of wanting NI to remain British.
I just wish he would see both sides of the coin with more objectivity.
When I started to really study the whole Anglo-Irish conflict/history, I did not come in with preconceived ideas or any type of indoctrination.
So if anything, my perspective is more objective than someone born into it, being raised to believe they are right and the other side is wrong.
I suppose if I had developed a more sympatric view of the English/British position in regard to NI, he would think my view more in line with his reality.
Trouble is, that over many years and a lot of research, I am more sympathetic with the Irish perspective. However, unlike some, I do not condone the violence, especially when it has involved innocent civilians.
Before the GFA, I was more of a pessimist, figuring the two stubborn tribes in NI were destined to be locked in perpetual battle indefinitely.
Knowing that both sides considered themselves strongly religious, and both sides were Christians, that was even more disheartening.
Some people would ask me why it was a religious war among Christians, and I use to say it wasn't, it was more of an ethnic war.
But unfortunately, the bigotry directed toward each others religion (what I refer to as a fault line) was an unescapable truth.
Still, as things have progressed over the years, I have become more of an optimist. Not so much because I believe NI is destine to become united with Ireland. Rather it is the peaceful way things are moving forward.
So while things have stagnated in the last couple of years (Paisley/McGuiness did a better job than Foster/O'Neill in my view), the GFA is still holding. However Brexit and this potential border issue could muck up the works pretty quickly.
Yes I agree the Protestants are not much good at presenting their side of things and the Irish Catholics are brilliant at it. John Ford and his films was a big help with Rio Grande and others ' Glory O To The Bold Fenian Men ' and the tears in the eyes etc. Even in more recent times its the same with Collins. I don't know of anything like that from the Protestant side. The Siege of Londonderry/Derry would make a great movie but there is no chance of that.
Agree with what you say about the Catholic population and their view of the Protestant population but have to add the different religions played a big part in it too. Long before the Easter Rising Rome had financed and blessed an army going to Ireland. The Protestants on the island have always been a small minority numbered in thousands while Catholics were in millions.
I don't think it would be a big deal to let us have this wee small part in the north of the island
the catholic church didnt support the Easter Rising , far from it , the localised structure didnt support it , never mind Rome itself
the men who were involved in the Easter Rising were pretty hard left socialists bar pearse , the church didnt want socialism
the catholic church didnt support the Easter Rising , far from it , the localised structure didnt support it , never mind Rome itself
the men who were involved in the Easter Rising were pretty hard left socialists bar pearse , the church didnt want socialism
According to some sources Rome was aware of what was about to happen. As I have said they were involved in Ireland many years before and gave support to the armies going there. Before the Rising a man went to Rome and informed them of what was about to happen.
Then we have the more recent times when some priests were involved with the IRA. Recently one has said he wished her had done more.
This is a piece I came across........
All statistics point to the unusually high numbers of Christian Brothers' past pupils involved in both the rank and file and the administration of the physical force republican movement. A survey of four Christian Brothers' Schools in Dublin reveals that in 1916, of those who took part in the Rising, twenty-four were from Marino, thirty were past pupils of Synge Street and thirty from Westland Row. Remarkably, one hundred and twenty-five of those involved in the Rising were from the O'Connell Schools, North Richmond ( including Sean Heuston, Con Colbert and Eamonn Ceannt ), yet there wére just five from Belvedere College, located a short distance away. One study concludes that the Christian Brothers' Schools turned out young men ' with a passion for the Irish identity, who lent themselves readily to organisations like the Irish Volunteer Force and the Irish Republican Brotherhood'. An essential charactristic of the Brothers' curricular and extra-curricular activities.
Thomas Clarke and Sean MacDermott with Bulmer Hobson's help, rejuvenated the IRB. Both were elitist, part of a despotic republican tradition which was characterised by indifference to the will of the majority. A leading member of the IRB recalled how Clarke rubbed his hands with glee.
Eamonn Ceannt was born in Galway in 1881 but brought up and educated in Dublin where, like Colbert and Heuston, he attended the Christian Brothers' School, North Richmond Street.
Michael O' Hanrahan was born in New Ross, County Wexford, in 1877. A priest said of O'Hanrahan that he ' always showed the national spirit of his forebearers was strongly implanted in him '. He was educated at the local Christian Brothers' school.
No it was lack of civil rights to a large part of the population. However, I do condemn the violence on both sides.
^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ullish Rab
Abstain and then complain was their policy.
I don't know how old you are, so maybe when Paisley was setting his thugs upon the civil rights marchers, you were not even born yet (though you have undoubtedly read or heard about it).
However the point Evening Sun is making is a valid one. If X amount of people abstained for whatever reason (i.e. thought the system was rigged, police were biased, etc.), others were trying to improve their situation via peaceful means.
So just like not all Brits in NI were Paisley like bigots, not all Irish were violent troublemakers. Yet sometimes it doesn't seem like you can differentiate, and instead use sweeping generalizations to describe all of the Irish.
Do you recognize that within yourself?
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