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That's amazing, Ulsterman. Many of my people were Methodist. The ministers kept their own books. There were not repositories for the records. Many of the ministers traveled by horseback to different places within their jurisdictions.
My people who I know came here from Ulster Province mostly came before the American Revolutionary War but one woman came , probably, just after the turn if the 19th century.
In the 18th century, the most popular route to the new world was Rotterdam to Liverpool to Philadelphia. Some got off the ship at Wilmington Delaware which was originally part of Pennsylvania. I've read that many left from Belfast and went to Liverpool. Some went to Liverpool expecting to work for the money to make the journey but stayed in Liverpool.
I did have an Irish couple come as children, one just before the potato famine and the other during it, but I don't think that their surnames occurred in Ulster Province. None were Catholics.
southbound had a look and the book is 180 years old
'The Methodist Connexion in Ireland comprehends forty-nine Circuits, and eighteen Mission stations; one hundred and sixty Preachers, including the Missionaries, and those who are on the supernumerary list; and twenty-six thousand two hundred and forty-four members of the society. To some persons this number will appear small; but the reason is obvious. In many parts of Ireland the law is comparatively powerless, and fails to afford protection to either the lives or the property of the Protestants. Hence the frequency of Protestant emigration. Within the last fifteen years no fewer than ten thousand members of the Methodist societies in Ireland have left their native country, and sought a more safe and quiet residence in other lands, mostly in America. Many of these were as the life-blood of the societies to which they belonged.'
Don't know if its the same in America but here Methodist Ministers only stay 5 years with one church before moving on to another. Apparently this is because John Wesley went about on horseback preaching the Gospel in different places.
Re the name Orange it came to mind that maybe they had been members of the Orange Order in America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulsterman
southbound had a look and the book is 180 years old
'The Methodist Connexion in Ireland comprehends forty-nine Circuits, and eighteen Mission stations; one hundred and sixty Preachers, including the Missionaries, and those who are on the supernumerary list; and twenty-six thousand two hundred and forty-four members of the society. To some persons this number will appear small; but the reason is obvious. In many parts of Ireland the law is comparatively powerless, and fails to afford protection to either the lives or the property of the Protestants. Hence the frequency of Protestant emigration. Within the last fifteen years no fewer than ten thousand members of the Methodist societies in Ireland have left their native country, and sought a more safe and quiet residence in other lands, mostly in America. Many of these were as the life-blood of the societies to which they belonged.'
Don't know if its the same in America but here Methodist Ministers only stay 5 years with one church before moving on to another. Apparently this is because John Wesley went about on horseback preaching the Gospel in different places.
Re the name Orange it came to mind that maybe they had been members of the Orange Order in America
Circuit riders. . .I knew that I was forgetting something.
I honestly don't know if Methodist ministers move around in the US. One of my cousins has a son who is one, but he runs a youth program, and he doesn't move.
I wondered if the name Orange came from belonging to the Orange Order. It's hard to say. I only know that they were farmers.
Circuit riders. . .I knew that I was forgetting something.
I honestly don't know if Methodist ministers move around in the US. One of my cousins has a son who is one, but he runs a youth program, and he doesn't move.
I wondered if the name Orange came from belonging to the Orange Order. It's hard to say. I only know that they were farmers.
I suppose different places have different ways. The OO I believe was there in the 1800s and I think are still in the USA.
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Originally Posted by Ulsterman
I suppose different places have different ways. The OO I believe was there in the 1800s and I think are still in the USA.
They were and are. It's hard to say, though, if that's where the name came from. All I know is the surname is absolutely Scottish, and they were farmers. I know 2 generations were born in NY state, before going to the Midwest. Going back from those 2 generations, I don't know where those people were born.
Re the name Orange it came to mind that maybe they had been members of the Orange Order in America
If there is/or was an Orange Order in America, they would have become Americanized and not carry on forever in the year preparing, marching, etc.
Heck we Yanks kicked your Brit butts back across the pond and formed our own country. Yet we only celebrate it one day of the year, not 8 months worth.
That was a much bigger accomplishment than anything you Ulster boys did in NI back in the day.
This would be the same Mary Lou McDonald who recently said a border poll would be a bad idea,then the boys in Belfast had a quiet word in her ear,then next day she flip-flopped and said she "misspoke ".
For the sake of argument, let us assume everything you said is completely accurate.
I suspect you feel confident that a vote today for a united Ireland would go down in glorious flames, correct?
For the sake of argument, let us assume everything you said is completely accurate.
I suspect you feel confident that a vote today for a united Ireland would go down in glorious flames, correct?
`
It's not something I give much thought to and,judging by the lack of conversation on a united ireland in the 30 or so years I've been coming to and living in this country,it's not something that bothers most Irish people either.
Oh,if you ask them directly they'll say of course we want a united Ireland ....eventually.
But asking them to vote in favour of joining up with NI and all the bigotry and hatred that comes with it and they'll say actually ...if you don't mind ...we'll take a swerve on that.
Likewise,if you ask someone in the North if they want to give up the £10billion annual bung the province gets,the vast army of public sector workers,free healthcare etc etc and the answer is less clear -in the last major public opinion poll a majority of Catholics preferred to stay as they were.
So going down " in glorious flames " is probably stretching things a bit but if I were to be bothered,which I'm not,I'd say yup,a border poll would fail.
Anyone remember Scots Indyref - how well did that go ?
Seeing as Northern Ireland is reliant on an annual "bung" as Mr Conkling puts it, perhaps the English tax payer might eventually come around to asking themselves if they wish to continue this transfer?
Northern Ireland will never be wealthy whilst part of the UK for the simple reason no British government needs it to be doing well in order to gain or hold on to power, as part of a united Ireland it would carry vastly more weight on a national basis.
It's not something I give much thought to and,judging by the lack of conversation on a united ireland in the 30 or so years I've been coming to and living in this country,it's not something that bothers most Irish people either.
Oh,if you ask them directly they'll say of course we want a united Ireland ....eventually.
But asking them to vote in favour of joining up with NI and all the bigotry and hatred that comes with it and they'll say actually ...if you don't mind ...we'll take a swerve on that.
Likewise,if you ask someone in the North if they want to give up the £10billion annual bung the province gets,the vast army of public sector workers,free healthcare etc etc and the answer is less clear -in the last major public opinion poll a majority of Catholics preferred to stay as they were.
So going down " in glorious flames " is probably stretching things a bit but if I were to be bothered,which I'm not,I'd say yup,a border poll would fail.
Anyone remember Scots Indyref - how well did that go ?
Let me say I appreciate the reasoned and thoughtful reply, as it was more than I expected to the question.
Let me answer the last question first.
Weren't many surprised just how many did vote for independence?
Obviously polling can be manipulated in various ways, as one needs look no further than Brexit or Americas 2016 presidential election to know that.
Still from what I understand Scotland came closer than most expected, and they had not been consistently demanding and fighting for independence like Ireland/NI has.
Also, and someone like English Dave can correct me, but I think the large number of Scots voting to leave rankled people, especially those in England who feel everyone is ungrateful, including the Irish.
Yet they all have greater representation than do the English themselves in their view. So why continue to pump money into these places and give them a greater say, while the average Englishmen cannot stand up for themselves in the same way.
Even the Welsh have a voice and can speak for their interests over the English.
Heck if I were English I might think the same thing myself, especially as it relates to NI. Who in their right mind would want to have to serve in the military, and potentially be hurt/killed just to try and hold onto land that the people were fighting and dying to get out of the UK.
The next point is related to you saying there has not been a clamoring for a united Ireland. While that might be accurate intermittently, many an article, documentary and politics has said otherwise (not to even bring the "Troubles" into it).
So the ebb and flow have always been there, but to the average mainland Brit, they probably became ambivalent to it, if ever they cared to begin with.
Out of sight, out of mind so to speak.
Now of course the Ulster Unionists know what I am talking about, as they feel like the red headed step child in all this. How can the majority of fellow Brits ignore the situation you'll essentially put us in over here, and just go about your daily lives.
They may hearken back to a day where they and the Irish got along better, and wish for a return of that "normalcy".
But that would also ignore the fact the Irish were being treated like 2nd class citizens on a good day in NI.
So when you hear the refrain "that the government has failed all sides", it gives one pause.
I did get a little long winded, but my initial thrust was related to why oppose such a vote if you and others think it would fail anyway.
Heck if it did pass, would that be better for mainland Brits anyway?
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