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The last time I was in San Francisco was five years ago, but the thing I found stunning about it was how few young people there were.
Yes, there were hipsters in the Mission, but most of them seemed to be in their early 30s. I saw large numbers of 20somethings on the street around Haight-Ashbury. But in every other neighborhood, 90% of the people on the street were between 35 and 60. There was almost no one older than a baby and younger than 30, and almost no one who was actually elderly.
I think it would thus be a pretty sucky place to be a 22-year old. It seemed a rather pretty, but very yuppie city. I don't know why any young person would choose it over NYC, but I see why an established, wealthy 40-year old would.
The problem with San Francisco is most people in their early 20s couldn't afford to live there unless they are a trust fund baby.
I hear a lot of this and it amuses me to no end because it usually is from media information rather than research or personal observation or too much TV. So I am going to ask, from what source does your information come? Where are your statistics? How does an entire city "cater" to one group or another? Does the city government put out a sign saying "Only (fill in the blank) may live here?" Does everyone over a certain age have to move? Are children forced to move then allowed back when they reach the allowable age?
Fraiser Crane types could very well live in Seattle or Portland. "LOL."
You say you don't care about the "national perception" but you obviously do care very much indeed for you have judged my city, Portland OR, by a national stereotype that, while admittedly does exist in certain areas, is not representative of the entire city. And I think these things also exist in Houston, Dallas and Atlanta. People who actually live in those places on CD have certainly said so. Those cities just don't get so hyped about it from the media and production companies from other cities don't aim their cameras at them to make a buck while giving them an one note reputation.
I know young Republicans, conservatives, moderates, even rednecks. It's not just oldies. You name it we got it. Nor all our young'uns are hipsters.
I don't mean to pick on you, it's just that I get annoyed when people stereotype my city without living here because I know that they are not judging by what they are seeing or if they are, judging by what little they have seen. The dangers of the Internet. It makes everyone think they are an expert. Oh and TV too.
Young people find the cities you have rejected very attrative it what it has is what they are looking for. If it doesn't they won't of course. Then they might like your choices. But I just hope they would see for themsleves, judge for themselves and think for themsleves instead of letting something or someone else do their seeing and thinking for them.
You missed the entire point of my post.
Statistics back up my claims. All you have to do is look at the demographic percentages. And I never said those cities don't let other types live there, but the fact of the matter is there are demands for one type of culture over another in those cities. It's the same with almost all cities.
It just so happens that my own personal tastes don't necessarily align with the types of social scenes those cities offer. Wasn't trying to run down Portland, Seattle, or SF. Was just stating that not ALL young people were into those cities.
The problem with San Francisco is most people in their early 20s couldn't afford to live there unless they are a trust fund baby.
Yeah. SF is one of the most expensive areas in the country and I imagine only those who did very well in school are even able to get a job with a company to work there.
Yeah. SF is one of the most expensive areas in the country and I imagine only those who did very well in school are even able to get a job with a company to work there.
The general rule is the more competitive the market, the more selective employers are. I knew somebody before the recession who said to break into IT in the Bay Area, graduating from a Top 10 school was pretty much a must. They are so selective that no matter what your skill level, graduating from McCollege wasn't going to get you anywhere. The same was true to a lesser extent in Portland and Austin, at least back around 2007-ish.
The problem with San Francisco is most people in their early 20s couldn't afford to live there unless they are a trust fund baby.
I don't think this is the whole thing. NYC is almost as expensive (it would be as expensive if not for the projects and rent control bringing averages down), but young people willingly live in poverty/share rooms in pretty awful apartments in order to live the New York lifestyle. San Francisco just is more of an "old people" city than NYC is. There's simply less in terms of interesting things for a young person who is interested in bars, clubs, music venues, etc. Not that there's nothing in SF, but it's more the sort of city for a childless couple in their early 40s still under the illusion they are young.
These places are expensive exactly because so many hip young things are chomping at the bit to get in.
In general it seems young people are attracted to liberal cities (well, most big cities are liberal anyways) with intelligent growth, good public transit, and smart regulation of marijuana.
I don't think this is the whole thing. NYC is almost as expensive (it would be as expensive if not for the projects and rent control bringing averages down), but young people willingly live in poverty/share rooms in pretty awful apartments in order to live the New York lifestyle. San Francisco just is more of an "old people" city than NYC is. There's simply less in terms of interesting things for a young person who is interested in bars, clubs, music venues, etc. Not that there's nothing in SF, but it's more the sort of city for a childless couple in their early 40s still under the illusion they are young.
Out of interest, how many different ways can a bar or club or musical performance change to keep "Wowing" a young person?
If you've been to two or three bars then you've been to pretty much all of them in the world. The whole world. Same with clubs.
Kind of like driving a car in NYC vs SF. Driving a car doesn't become more and more exotic and new every corner you turn down in NYC (although, they have the craziest drivers in the U.S.--and crazy double parking).
Or it's like sex with women. I imagine women are pretty much the same all over the world.
There is the interesting dichotomy when people speak about young people. When it comes to student debt and out of work college grads or college grads working jobs that people with no college degree can do, then people like to speak as if young adults are "stupid" or gullible and easy to dupe. But when it comes to living as you mentioned in NYC rather than in SF... then young adults must be super smart.
When Snoop Dog rapped about drinking gin and juice then the younf adults that listened to his music all began drinking gin and juice. NYC is just gin and juice.
Out of interest, how many different ways can a bar or club or musical performance change to keep "Wowing" a young person?
If you've been to two or three bars then you've been to pretty much all of them in the world. The whole world. Same with clubs.
Kind of like driving a car in NYC vs SF. Driving a car doesn't become more and more exotic and new every corner you turn down in NYC (although, they have the craziest drivers in the U.S.--and crazy double parking).
Or it's like sex with women. I imagine women are pretty much the same all over the world.
There is the interesting dichotomy when people speak about young people. When it comes to student debt and out of work college grads or college grads working jobs that people with no college degree can do, then people like to speak as if young adults are "stupid" or gullible and easy to dupe. But when it comes to living as you mentioned in NYC rather than in SF... then young adults must be super smart.
When Snoop Dog rapped about drinking gin and juice then the young adults that listened to his music all began drinking gin and juice. NYC is just gin and juice.
I made no conclusion that NYC is the smart choice. Only that I think it's a city which is considered far more desirable than San Francisco for young people today. Admittedly I'm 33 - not super young anymore - but everyone I've talked to has basically agreed San Francisco's offerings tend to appeal more to people who are childless but have grown out of the desire to have nightlife be the center of social activities. New York City has lost some of the luster of a decade ago because it's so expensive now, but it remains a desired location. IIRC, something like a third of 20somethings would like to live there.
I grew up fairly close to NYC, and many of my childhood friends located there. I think what NYC offers to many young people is the idea of limitless possibility, coupled with the satisfaction of being in the center of everything. The perception is if it's not happening in New York, it isn't happening. If you like a band, it will come to New York, for example, whereas you can't guarantee that will happen in San Francisco. Hanging out in New York gives many people a simple air of superiority, but on the flipside, the city is so huge you can always imagine there's an undiscovered scene somewhere out there which you can break into. You're never gong to tap out NYC socially, even if you end up one of those 45 year olds who still pretends they are 25.
I made no conclusion that NYC is the smart choice. Only that I think it's a city which is considered far more desirable than San Francisco for young people today. Admittedly I'm 33 - not super young anymore - but everyone I've talked to has basically agreed San Francisco's offerings tend to appeal more to people who are childless but have grown out of the desire to have nightlife be the center of social activities. New York City has lost some of the luster of a decade ago because it's so expensive now, but it remains a desired location. IIRC, something like a third of 20somethings would like to live there.
I grew up fairly close to NYC, and many of my childhood friends located there. I think what NYC offers to many young people is the idea of limitless possibility, coupled with the satisfaction of being in the center of everything. The perception is if it's not happening in New York, it isn't happening. If you like a band, it will come to New York, for example, whereas you can't guarantee that will happen in San Francisco. Hanging out in New York gives many people a simple air of superiority, but on the flipside, the city is so huge you can always imagine there's an undiscovered scene somewhere out there which you can break into. You're never gong to tap out NYC socially, even if you end up one of those 45 year olds who still pretends they are 25.
Okay, fair enough, eschaton. I see what you are (and were) saying now.
I grew up fairly close to NYC, and many of my childhood friends located there. I think what NYC offers to many young people is the idea of limitless possibility, coupled with the satisfaction of being in the center of everything. The perception is if it's not happening in New York, it isn't happening. If you like a band, it will come to New York, for example, whereas you can't guarantee that will happen in San Francisco. Hanging out in New York gives many people a simple air of superiority, but on the flipside, the city is so huge you can always imagine there's an undiscovered scene somewhere out there which you can break into. You're never gong to tap out NYC socially, even if you end up one of those 45 year olds who still pretends they are 25.
Really? If a band tours the west coast, it'll likely go to San Francisco. It may not be New York City, but it's not exactly a backwater.
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