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Comedy and drama all in one morning! What a treat ...
Kohmet, no doubt some people living in the 'burbs feel trapped there, whether it's because of housing budget, or school choice, or commute times (once again, not everyone works downtown). But your pictures of desperation and ... what else? ... oh, yeah, brutality ... is more than just a tad off the mark.
And what does "overvaluing personal space" mean? Is it morally unacceptable for a family of four to want something bigger than a 1,200 square foot townhouse?
Why yes! You haven't been on the Urban Planning forum enough if you don't know that. We get dragged into various morality plays frequently here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht
Clearly they're more than just my opinion. Looking at typical real estate prices alone one can easily see people put quite a premium for living in the central city (maybe not Detroit, but most other cities not in collapse are experiencing tremendous demand. People demand and are willing to pay extra to live in something that is not sprawl (honestly, no surprise there), yet large numbers of people continue to opt to live in places they hate or merely tolerate. I guess they tell themselves that the imoressive two story foyer and great room are worth it.
But back to the OPs point, what allows then to stay year after year? Distractions by TV is an interesting theorem...I think it's a bit larger than that. People end up loving their personal space (the double stair case at entryway, the media room, the bonus room lovingly turned into a child's den) but either dispise (or are blind to) the hostile brutal world existing just outside their little piece of sprawl. So yes, to the OP, TV in a sense makes them numb to the reality of day-to-day existence, but I'll posit its the entire home, from the oil rubbed bronze hardware, to the three car garages that creates a pocket of unreality that allows them to forget what's just outside their windows.
Are you jealous or something? I don't have any of those things, but really, why the sneering attitude? Is it worse to want those things than to want to live within walking distance of a bar?
Clearly they're more than just my opinion. Looking at typical real estate prices alone one can easily see people put quite a premium for living in the central city (maybe not Detroit, but most other cities not in collapse are experiencing tremendous demand. People demand and are willing to pay extra to live in something that is not sprawl (honestly, no surprise there), yet large numbers of people continue to opt to live in places they hate or merely tolerate. I guess they tell themselves that the imoressive two story foyer and great room are worth it.
Lol, right...I don't dispute that some people want to live in dense, urban areas...land values are high and so is the general cost of living, so yes...some people make the choice to forego the suburban lifestyle for the urban one. I still don't see how this means anything about people in the suburbs being unhappy, it actually sounds like more opinionated nonsense, such as "yet large numbers of people continue to opt to live in places they hate or merely tolerate". How do you know this? How could you possibly know that "large numbers of people" are miserable because they live in a suburb? Are you going by some small anecdotal evidence like a few of your buddies or family members? If there is truly someone who is unhappy with where they live, it's on them to make the decisions in life that will allow them to live the lifestyle that they so choose, and in America, believe it or not, they have plenty of options.
If someone's dream is not to pay a mortgage + car payment + property taxes, etc on a nice big home with some land in Parsippanny, NJ but rather spend their money on rent + mass transit + cost of living in a walkable brownstone neighborhood in Brooklyn, then it's on them to set the gears in motion. I currently live in New York City, albeit in a more suburban-styled location, however it is my desire to move out to somewhere less dense and with a lower cost of living, probably down south. I don't sit around and bemoan how this environment doesn't fit my lifestyle desires, I do something about it and move.
And you know what, I'd also be willing to bet that there are a LOT of people who live in dense, urban areas who would love to get the hell out....and are actively working on it every day. People have different tastes in lifestyle choices, get over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht
But back to the OPs point, what allows then to stay year after year? Distractions by TV is an interesting theorem...I think it's a bit larger than that. People end up loving their personal space (the double stair case at entryway, the media room, the bonus room lovingly turned into a child's den) but either dispise (or are blind to) the hostile brutal world existing just outside their little piece of sprawl. So yes, to the OP, TV in a sense makes them numb to the reality of day-to-day existence, but I'll posit its the entire home, from the oil rubbed bronze hardware, to the three car garages that creates a pocket of unreality that allows them to forget what's just outside their windows.
Yes, I know...god forbid someone wants to have a little more personal space than the city. We all know for a fact, thanks to you, that EVERYONE who lives somewhere like this is miserable, unhappy and locks themselves inside their garage to watch Dancing with the Stars every day because they want to "escape reality".... realistically, according to you, everyone desires to live somewhere like here, or better yet, here, where NOBODY watches TV, everyone is so happy all the time, so culturally enlightened because they walk around the street together, attend the opera 3 times a month, and spend all their free time at their favorite museum or other cultural attraction. Your generalizations, broad statements and absolutes are just as completely and utterly ridiculous. People like the suburbs. People like the city. People like the middle of nowhere. Again, get over it.
Why yes! You haven't been on the Urban Planning forum enough if you don't know that. We get dragged into various morality plays frequently here.
Are you jealous or something? I don't have any of those things, but really, why the sneering attitude? Is it worse to want those things than to want to live within walking distance of a bar?
Sneering attitude? I'm just trying to come up with a theory that explains opting to live in and out up with the day-to-day horrors of sprawl. I suspect it has to do with features one might find in a suburban home (hand-scraped floors, wetbar, built in grill, and yes, flat screen TVs) that help numb the pain.
But perhaps you're right and that its more than "stuff" that allows them to tolerate their existence. Maybe it's making lifestyle adjustments (going to suburban key parties) that allows for a little stimulation outside the home.
Sneering attitude? I'm just trying to come up with a theory that explains opting to live in and out up with the day-to-day horrors of sprawl. I suspect it has to do with features one might find in a suburban home (hand-scraped floors, wetbar, built in grill, and yes, flat screen TVs) that help numb the pain.
But perhaps you're right and that its more than "stuff" that allows them to tolerate their existence. Maybe it's making lifestyle adjustments (going to suburban key parties) that allows for a little stimulation outside the home.
I don't know what a suburban key party is. Is this some sort of party where someone sells keys? Or what? In any event, I doubt it's any less stultifying than going to some city bar and getting drunk.
Funny you should mention flat-screen TVs. We were discussing these once before, and some of the urbanites felt they were helpful in small spaces, which young people, suburban or urban, seem to inhabit.
And what kind of dwelling are you living in Komeht? An 8X10 four-bed room?
I don't know what a suburban key party is. Is this some sort of party where someone sells keys? Or what? In any event, I doubt it's any less stultifying than going to some city bar and getting drunk.
One could equally argue that exposure to mass media allows those in formerly isolated areas to realize there is a wider world, and gives them aspirations of moving somewhere else. People used to think about New York City as just "some big city on the East Coast," whereas now people by the time they are 18 have particular conceptions of it, largely from watching different television shows.
I'm sure, if nothing else, media has accelerated rural flight. I don't think there's any real difference between suburban and urban media consumption, so I don't think it matters much there. Certainly in the 1950s a suburban norm was shown on sitcoms, but this had already begun to wane by the 70s and 80s (e.g., All In The Family, The Cosby Show, etc).
If anyone in my neighborhood has one of these, I am so out of town! LOL
I think it's a suburban legend.
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