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Oh yes...it's "everybody on this forum" who is the problem, not YOU. That's the funniest thing I've read all day...
What is your opinion about smart growth and trying to build suburbs to limit sprawl and congestion? I understand that the city isn't for everybody. However, I feel that Americans need to limit sprawl because it is contributing to the problems of every metro area, just as much as poverty. I would like to hear your opinions.'
Thanks DeaconJ.
Last edited by Awesomo.2000; 01-14-2009 at 03:48 PM..
I would like to add. I in noway think that every suburb is bad. I like the first ring of older suburbs. There are many suburbs that are developed more like a town with a central buisness district, walkable streets, playgrounds, parks, public swimming pools, and all the works. I love those suburbs.
I am not a fan, nor do I like to support my tax money to go to new subdivisions that are built far away from anything, have no public parks, no public swimming pools, no sidewalks, and none of the works.
I have lived in suburbs almost all my life and I have never lived in a place like that. I wouldn't like that either. But those places are pretty non-existent, in my experience. I have lived in suburbs of Pittsburgh, Albany, NY and Denver. I have relatives/friends in suburbs of Chicago, Minneapolis, and Boston. None of those places is like that. Well, the eastern burbs don't have sidewalks, but all of them have parks, public buildings, rec facilities, libraries, etc.
I was on the Minneapolis forum this morning and found this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
If you look at pictures of most Minneapolis neighborhoods from the 1940's or so, they look like cookie cutter neighborhoods with no soul or charm as well. Established neighborhoods don't happen overnight. Do I like our blah house, it's a place to live that has the things we wanted. Would I rather have our 1860's build house we used to have, you bet, but I am not willing to sacrifice the quality of education we get in the suburbs just to move to an old house in Minneapolis. I am also not willing to have to put up with petty crime like people breaking into my garage or worrying about my kids playing outside after dark.
It sums up well what I have been saying. These old houses were also, in large part, built to cookie-cutter standards. Especially the row houses. Only custom homes are "unique" and even many of them, old and new, are quite similar.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-17-2009 at 09:36 AM..
Reason: typo
I was on the Minneapolis forum this morning and found this post:
It sums up well what I have been saying. These old houses were also, in large part, built to cookie-cutter standards. Especially the row houses. Only custom homes are "iunique" and even many of them, old and new, are quite similar.
This is right on Katiana. As a kid, I lived in an old Chicago neighborhood. The houses and 2-flats were built in the 1920s and before. They looked very similar to each other. Just minor variations in the brick color or styles. I don't see how cookie-cutter applies only to new houses in the suburbs. Cookie-cutter houses have been built, probably for centuries. Not a new phenomena at all.
I think the difference is that in suburbia, all of the moral ineptity is hidden because with wider spaces, people see less. In the city, it's a bit more crowded and you see more. Crowd alot of bad elements in one area you will see problems.
I have lived in suburbs almost all my life and I have never lived in a place like that. I wouldn't like that either. But those places are pretty non-existent, in my experience. I have lived in suburbs of Pittsburgh, Albany, NY and Denver. I have relatives/friends in suburbs of Chicago, Minneapolis, and Boston. None of those places is like that. Well, the eastern burbs don't have sidewalks, but all of them have parks, public buildings, rec facilities, libraries, etc.
Katiana, I envy you for never coming across Exurbs in your life.
Pittsburgh has 5 belts, that are just old crappy roads that circle the city. The furthest one is about 25-30 miles outside the city. It is known as the red belt. If you travel the red belt outside of Pittsburgh. You will see nothing but this. I travel the redbelt all the time. It goes through rural areas that use to be farm land, and now is subdivisions.
These are known as Exurbs. Exurbian development is the latest suburban development. Far different than the old white flight suburbs. They are usually in "Boroughs"," Municipalities", or "Townships". I grew up in a place called "Washington Township" about 30 miles east of Pittsburgh. It has no public library, and is mostly rural backroads that have sporadic subdivisions built with in them. These subdivisions offer no public anything. Are you telling me that you lived in all of those areas your whole life and never came across the exurbs?
I love studying architecture, and love to study development of different times of every city I travel too. I even go and look at the development of cities suburbs as they grew out during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and so on. Each generation had its different form of suburbs. You are pretty much saying that you have never came across "exurbs" in your entire life. I really wish I was you, and I never came across these things either.
What Americans have planned after the exurbs is beyond me, but I don't want to see it.
I said I never lived in any place like that, and that in my experience they are mostly non-existent. There are few places such as you describe in metro Denver, where I have lived the last 28 years.
I do read the Pittsburgh newspaper occasionally, including the "neighborhoods" section. I find a lot of reference to library services and the like in the suburbs, including the far northern burbs. My nephew and his family lived in Wexford, and his wife volunteered at the local library. Driving through a place is different than living there.
Maybe Pittsburgh is just "different", I don't know. It wasn't that way in Albany, NY, either. We didn't have sidewalks in the burbs there; it was pretty much drive everywhere, but there were schools, libraries, parks and the like.
As far as subdivisions being built on former farmland, that has been the case since the Pilgrims landed. There has been no dimunition in the food supply since this farmland was taken out of production, according to articles I have read. I posted a link about this somewhere; you can do a search.
^The carnegie libraries extend into some northern suburbs. I know where my brother lives in Natrona Heights has one. However, the sprawling exurbs of Westmoreland country (where I grew up), Butler, and Washington counties fund their own library systems.
I know Murrysville had a library. However, I still consider Murrysville a exurban community. Mostly old farm land that is being developed into Subdivisions. The car is still needed for everythign such as shopping, and going to the small library.
Like I said before. I have nothing wrong with suburbs. If I ever have kids, I would live in Mt. Lebanon, Oakmont, or most likely Edgewood. Old towns that are centralized, walkable, and nice. I would never raise kids in a sprawling subdivision off of a highway where all there is to do if you don't have a car is smoke pot in the woods. (nothing personal)
I don't blame the people who buy in these new exurban subdivisions. They want what a lot of people want; space. However, developers fill these subdivsions so tight that is is no different living in a low density city neighborhood, but the only problem is you have to drive for everything. Developers need to be more smart building with our resources. However, it is the State that needs to get their act together and think about letting developers build cheap and intellectually lazy designed housing plans on old rural farm land to turn a huge profit. Urban sprawl effects everybody, city people, small town people, and the people who choose to live in it. While the developers make off with millions.
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