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Old 02-02-2014, 08:21 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
IIRC, there was alcohol involved and other factors, too with the bus issue. You can't make an example of a whole metro area from one news article that doesn't necessarily have all the information.
The incident was covered in multiple news articles. The driver was drinking (I think?), the mother was not. The driver was never convicted of drunk driving or vehicular homicide, the mother was charged instead. The issue there was NO crosswalk anywhere close. Did the highway designers think about anyone but drivers?

Quote:
"They" were just trying to make their guest comfortable. That's what "we" do out here.
Neither were there, but if they were suggesting that not driving was weird, unless it was truly inconvenient which it wasn't, they're not making the guest comfortable, they're making the guest uncomfortable. It would make me a bit uncomfortable.

The really odd thing was this hotel was downtown and they assumed people would want to rent a car.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:28 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The incident was covered in multiple news articles. The driver was drinking (I think?), the mother was not. The driver was never convicted of drunk driving or vehicular homicide, the mother was charged instead. The issue there was NO crosswalk anywhere close. Did the highway designers think about anyone but drivers?



Neither were there, but if they were suggesting that not driving was weird, unless it was truly inconvenient which it wasn't, they're not making the guest comfortable, they're making the guest uncomfortable. It would make me a bit uncomfortable.

The really odd thing was this hotel was downtown and they assumed people would want to rent a car.
I don't think we know enough about that incident with the kid in Atlanta to judge the whole city by it, and that incident certainly has nothing to do with the one we're supposed to be discussing. I don't know the Georgia rules of the road, and I don't intend to look them up, but isn't there an implied crosswalk at every intersection?

I don't know who jade was dealing with in Denver, but we're a pretty "live and let live" bunch. Did someone say to her, "That's wierd", or "Are you crazy" for wanting to walk? Or did they just say, "Are you sure? It's snowing pretty hard and the sidewalk can by ICY"?

Stapleton is not downtown. It's "New Urbanist" but by all accounts, very car oriented. Or maybe, jade was staying downtown and walked to Stapleton, which is way more than 3/4 mille. According to this: https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CDYQ-A8wAA it's 10 miles!

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-02-2014 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:39 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,959,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't think we know enough about that incident with the kid in Atlanta to judge the whole city by it, and that incident certainly has nothing to do with the one we're supposed to be discussing. I don't know the Georgia rules of the road, and I don't intend to look them up, but isn't there an implied crosswalk at every intersection?
There is, the nearest intersection was .3 miles away and her apartment was almost across the street. It would have nearly 10 minutes extra to cross at the light. Article I found said the mom and her kids safely crossed to the median, and one of the kids left her and darted into the road. Could have happened at an interesection, too then if there were turning cars.

Quote:
I don't know who jade was dealing with in Denver, but we're a pretty "live and let live" bunch. Did someone say to her, "That's weird", or "Are you crazy" for wanting to walk? Or did they just say, "Are you sure? It's snowing pretty hard and the sidewalk can by ICY"?
Though, I wouldn't want to drive either if it's snowing pretty hard. I sometimes avoid driving for a bit during/after a snowstomr.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:49 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
There is, the nearest intersection was .3 miles away and her apartment was almost across the street. It would have nearly 10 minutes extra to cross at the light. Article I found said the mom and her kids safely crossed to the median, and one of the kids left her and darted into the road. Could have happened at an interesection, too then if there were turning cars.



Though, I wouldn't want to drive either if it's snowing pretty hard. I sometimes avoid driving for a bit during/after a snowstomr.
But we're not talking about that incident! At least, we're not supposed to be. And what the frick is wrong with crossing at an intersection, especially when crossing a busy street? Seems I learned that in oh, kindergarten!

Point taken about the snow, esp. if you're not confident in driving in it. But walk 10 miles? If that was the case, no wonder some thought she was "crazy". The law in most cities in this area is that sidewalks do not have to be shoveled until the snow stops falling. If this was last week's snow, it was 62 one day, then snowed at night and got cold. There would have been plenty of ICE around to slip on in 10 miles of walking. (I didn't know it was quite that far until I googled it.) Now if she was staying in a hotel in Stapleton and it really was 3/4 mile, that's a bit different.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: the Permian Basin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Most people are SOL because they decided to only build highways to the burbs and not transit. ATL is one of those regions where they are really buying into the idea that transit brings undesirables....
If you had actually ridden public transit, you'd realize that the general ridership is NOT what you see in the background of the Mayor's photo-op ride.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
There is, the nearest intersection was .3 miles away and her apartment was almost across the street. It would have nearly 10 minutes extra to cross at the light. Article I found said the mom and her kids safely crossed to the median, and one of the kids left her and darted into the road. Could have happened at an interesection, too then if there were turning cars.
Well, then it was nobody's fault and any further discussion is pointless, no? Especially in relation to the topic at hand, which is the effect of an unusual weather event on the city's transportation network.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,166 posts, read 29,665,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
IIRC, there was alcohol involved and other factors, too with the bus issue. You can't make an example of a whole metro area from one news article that doesn't necessarily have all the information.

"They" were just trying to make their guest comfortable. That's what "we" do out here.
I used to live in the South as well. When I moved from California, the first thing I noticed was the lack if sidewalks. It is just not always required. It is really silly, but in my own neighborhood I couldn't walk to my friends house without walking in the middle of the street.

I have had lots of meetings in ATL suburbs, and it was the same deal. We had a hotel across from an office park and strip mall, but we had to get in the car to get there. Even though it would have been a five minute walk. It is crazy how we have engineered activity out or our towns and cities.

As I mentioned, I like to walk distances under 1/2 mile, I just hate driving short distances. But if your experience is mostly in an area where the only pedestrian experiences are in the hiking trails designed for exercise or the tourist zones, you don't necessarily equate walking as a transit option. Since you don't have the infrastructure to do so safely.

The incident I posted about the drunk driver was mitigated by the lack of crosswalks in the so called "desire path". The bus stop was across the street from commercial developments and apartments (logical places for bus riders to have as their final destination) while the crosswalk was 1/3 of a mile away in the opposite direction of the development. People logically chose the shortest path to their destination across the street. And the city didn't bother to create infrastructure to match the desired destinations. The most important thing for that road design was getting the cars to pass quickly at 40+ Miles per hour.


***re: my trip to Denver, most clients assume you want a car. I was remarking that they thought I was "weird" for declining.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,166 posts, read 29,665,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post

I don't know who jade was dealing with in Denver, but we're a pretty "live and let live" bunch. Did someone say to her, "That's wierd", or "Are you crazy" for wanting to walk? Or did they just say, "Are you sure? It's snowing pretty hard and the sidewalk can by ICY"?

Stapleton is not downtown. It's "New Urbanist" but by all accounts, very car oriented. Or maybe, jade was staying downtown and walked to Stapleton, which is way more than 3/4 mille. According to this: https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CDYQ-A8wAA it's 10 miles!
I stayed downtown. But my client's project was Stapleton. I went there on the second trip for them.

I stayed in some other new development near downtown. I have since forgotten what the area was called. It was that's weird in that "you Californians are so crazy way..." It was all in good fun. We had spent months in the project at that point and had a friendly relationship.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,166 posts, read 29,665,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
If you had actually ridden public transit, you'd realize that the general ridership is NOT what you see in the background of the Mayor's photo-op ride.
I haven't ridden transit in ATL but I have in many other cities. Transit doesn't reflect the metro areas broader demographics if you design it in a way that makes it so the minute you can afford not to use it you will avoid it like the plague: with crappy equipment, ill planned routes, unreliable service and limited coverage. ATL transit doesn't go where people need to go so it isn't that popular. Although it is starting to change as more people are choosing to live in areas served by transit in ATL.

Where I live, we have commuter transit that is full of "choice" riders. My local transit, does have a fairly mixed demographic as well. I choose to ride it a few times a week and I have a car to drive.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:54 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,581,357 times
Reputation: 33059
@jade408: Since you insist on talking about that accident, even though it's not the thread topic, listen up:

I live on the same side of the road as this church:
https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...85715370478141

My kids' school is across the road to the south and slightly west. You can play around with the map and find the school.

They had a bus, but as they got older they sometimes wanted to ride their bikes and/or stay late after school and walk home. I taught them to ALWAYS cross at the crosswalk with the light, even though, as you can tell, the bike path actually dumps them on the road in mid-block. (There is now a tunnel under the road, but it wasn't there when my kids were little.) As a driver, I would go out of my way to avoid hitting a pedestrian, especially a kid, probably risking injury to myself as well. After all, I wear a seatbelt and I have airbags. But, IT'S NOT SAFE TO CROSS IN MID-BLOCK! Period. Regardless of an excuse of " (p)eople logically chose the shortest path to their destination across the street. " Adult people are supposed to think.

I'm not sure what your treatise about walking is all about. Denver is the west, although you Californians may not think so. Virtually every developed area has sidewalks. My walking experience is not confined to hiking trails. I've done my share of walking for transportation. But, it snows here! Were you here last Thursday? On the previous Tuesday (two days earlier) the high was 62. It had been in the 50s/60s since Jan. 17. The streets and sidewalks were warm. It got cold on Wednesday and snowed Weds night. There was ICE on the roads and sidewalks from the snow freezing on the warm pavement. If you were staying downtown, and had business in Stapelton, the inimitable "they" might have thought it was odd you didn't want a car. Did "they" really say "weird"? "They" might have thought you'd like to drive around and see some of the sights.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/....html#calendar
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