Why are we worried

[jazzbird]

Originally Posted by philiplo

Those who think using everything up is good because it is a predictor of "end times" scare the p00p out of me. Those who argue that it's their duty to bring across as many spirit children as they can, resources be damned, scare the p00p out of me. Those who believe prophecy supplies knowledge scare the p00p out of me.

I'm nodding my head with the gist of your concerns, but let's be careful. To distribute the expressed view of any one LDS across the entire faith is equivalent to categorically smearing Protestant Christianity on the basis of the expressed views of say, Pat Robertson or James Dobson. All faiths have their extremists. A lot of people think that the LDS are more homogeneous in their beliefs and practices than they actually are. There are restorationists and there are restorationists of restorationalism. After Joseph Smith was murdered, the leadership of the then-called Church of Christ struggled for direction of leadership. So while Mormonism is trying to "restore" Christianity from its historical corruptions generally, various sects are trying to "restore" Smithian Mormonism from its historical corruptions WITHIN the umbrella of LDS tradition specifically. Today the LDS is a bit like Protestantism - it is more a collection of sects than a single denomination. I don't think I would say that it has a liberal wing, but it certainly has a fundamentalist wing, and a broad swath of extremely conservative members who are inbetween the LDS mainstream and the fundamentalists. And also like Protestantism, there is sometimes more internal disagreement about theology between moderate and conservative wings than there is external disagreement between moderate wings of entirely different religions. An interesting complex of belief dynamics to be sure!

[coolcats]

Originally Posted by philiplo

This thread is scary.

I'm not doing my reputation any good by saying this but, for the most part, I agree with Steve.

Those who think using everything up is good because it is a predictor of "end times" scare the p00p out of me. Those who argue that it's their duty to bring across as many spirit children as they can, resources be damned, scare the p00p out of me. Those who believe prophecy supplies knowledge scare the p00p out of me.

Yet here I am, a true-blue liberal atheist, living in So. Utah, surrounded by people who hold these beliefs. Well, at least I don't have to worry about constipation.

To address Michelleleigh's thoughts and questions,

• Not all non-LDS are afraid to move to Utah. Some don't want to be here because they'd prefer someplace with greater diversity. Utah (especially So. Utah) is quite homogenous. Come to St. George and count the black or Asian faces you see. You certainly won't need an adding machine. Some don't care for the influence that the beliefs of the LDS church have on everyday life. Just ask those who were surprised that the New Year's celebration in many Utah communities took place on December 30!

• Drinking alcohol in moderation can have physical and psychological benefits.

• They may teach honesty but, as with many teachings, it's not always followed. I don't think members of the LDS church are any more honest than the U.S. population in general.

• I don't know enough about SLC to speak for that area, but So. Utah does have a meth problem.

• I don't know if there's a high poverty rate or not, but I do know that Utah ranks highest in bankruptcies.

I don't think many of us are saying use up all the resources we can. Most LDS believe that we need to be good stewards over the gift of the earth that God has given us.

Some LDS do feel like they should bring in lots of children into the world. Sometimes they do it because they feel like they SHOULD, which I don't agree with. But a lot of time it does go along with the philosophy that children are treasures. I have two kids, and would like to have a couple more. However, my wife's health makes that a risky proposition. So I look at the situation and am willing to stop at two. I'm perfectly happy to consider adoption, which would seem to solve the problem from all perspectives.

Believing in prophecy would seem to be a matter of personal religious choice as is atheism. Sometimes people accuse those who believe as blindly following, but I've always been taught to think and decide for myself.

• Utah is not too diverse, definitely agree with that. But I think in Salt Lake there is some.
  
• Drinking in moderation may be ok for some, and I certainly don't condemn those who do. I guess you balance the risks of benefits and abuse. The choice not to drink again certainly isn't a bad thing.
  
• Yes dishonesty can happen anywhere. I actually think there are a lot of scams here, with people taking advantage of the trust that can be built up.
  
• Drugs, and I would add crime, are as big of a problem here as many places, I agree.
  
• I think many people in Utah do want to have it all, which is a mistake. They want the nice house, the RV, the hottub and big screen all on one income. Plus those who do pay 10 percent to their church probably get overqualified for loans by that amount. That probably leads to the bankruptcies.

As for the public New Years celebrations on the 30th. I guess you can't make everyone happy, so if there is a majority maybe you do accomodate them. I wouldn't go to New York and expect the whole city to change its celebration just to accomodate me. So if there is a majority that prefers another night, it seems to make sense. Sort of like no one in the US recognizes Christmas celebrations on Jan 7th, but in Russia that is the big day. Some Russian-Americans may feel slighted, but there just isn't the mass here to justify it. They are certainly free to have their own recognition of it though. SLC had its New Years celebration on the 31st and Provo on the 30th. We thought about driving down to Provo, but it seemed a bit hard.

[ms.froggy]

Ok. Utah does have own bubble. I think because many LDS lives here and turned out to be LDS based cultured state. I'm LDS and I even noticed.

I must say that everywhere we go, there are always some sort of cultures everywhere we go and move. I even have lived in different countries before and to me it is always learning opportunities.

There are always drugs problems everywhere you go.

About LDS members... well, I must say we are still human being and we aren't perfect. It is our belief and that is what we chose to believe... just like any other religions. Well, do they always follow their teachings?
Yes, I agree that we LDS can be better examples to others. But, I think because LDS memebers here in Utah grew up among 70-80% LDS memebers and they got comfortable of its own culture of Utah. If you go any other places, most of LDS are much more eagar to be a better example to others.

It just take little time to get used to. Got to be little open minded every where you go.

Have a great day!!

[ScottDaMan]

Just wanted to say, I'm non-LDS, moved here from So Cal to Cedar City and absolutely love it here. We've had very few issues with LDS members so much so, it isn't an issue at all.

We have LDS and non-LDS friends. No problems once they knew we weren't "converting."

The problems you will find, however, is kids in school. My daughter was asked if she was LDS on the first day of school this year. Because she said no, this small group of kids refuse to play with her. A few small group (4 or so).

If LDS members teach their kids to alienate themselves, that isn't my problem.

[desertnorthstar]

I lived in Utah for a short while in the 1970s while serving at Dugway Proving Ground. Steve is right about the "Psyche" of the LDS Church invading most aspects of life there. In later years I lived in Phoenix. People told me before I went there that it gets hot in the summer. I thought to myself - "it gets hot everywhere in the summer". Nothing could have prepared me for 119 degrees for days on end until I actually experienced.
Likewise you probably can't understand what Steve meant until you move to Utah and experience it for yourself. While the scenery is beautiful - like nowhere else - that underlying feeling that this land has been "claimed" by a certain group of people who think outside the norm of the rest of the country does pervade throughout the state. The good "feeling" that the believers of Joseph Smith seem to project made me feel as if they were on to something. The more I read about the belief system which is not even 200 years old made me a bit uncomfortable. After all I have furniture older than that from my great-grandparents. Nevertheless I did my best to enjoy my time there but always felt more like a visitor or perhaps even an intruder, than a member of Utah's civil society. It's kine of like that 119 degrees in Phoenix - hard to explain.

I would like to hear any responses or whether the person originating this post ever moved to Utah.

[SouthernBelleInUtah]

Yes, she did. Utah has changed in the last 11 yrs, much less 30-plus yrs.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[michelleleigh]

desertnorthstar

We did move here. The only complaint I really have is that I can not get a good green chili cheese burger. I love Utah and its quirks( the quirks make me feel at home NM is pretty quirky also) I like fry sauce and found the Utah version of a scone pretty yummy(Though I will limit myself to one a year, because they have to be bad for you)

[dcisive]

One thing to keep in mind. If a couple happen to pop out a half dozen kids and run into financial difficulties, UNLIKE other places in the world, they can go to their Bishop at their LDS ward and get assistance via food AND $$$. It's not so easy in other circumstances, but if they are adhering to their ways and in good standing they are basically all set with the in house social security system set up by the church. They DO take care of their own (yeah yeah I know all about their charitable effort for those outside the church as well). Just sayin...

[The Lyin' King]

Has anything changed in the area over the years?