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I am currently a lacto ovo vegetarian, but for many years was a strict vegan and animal rights activist. I used to leaflet high schools and colleges, even tabled a private college on my own, worked with local medical establishments to push for vegan menu options. I worked and worked to convert family members and friends to vegan, and was horrible to them when they failed or didn't stay vegan long. I got to the point of pushing others away, avoiding this company or that food because it came from a place of "cruelty". I avoided palm oil (which is in many food and nonfood products and involves a great deal of cruelty in the making), soy, products made from nonvegan companies, you name it. My diet and lifestyle were very restrictive. I grew some of my own food, made my own shampoo and soap. I went to rallies for animal causes.
Somewhere along the line I began to feel my own frustrations in the animal rights group. I could never be vegan enough because I take medications that are not 100% vegan (I've been on thyroid meds for 29 years which are not a choice; take a hormone patch due to loss of ovaries many years ago at a young age, also not a choice if I want to function). My husband of 19 years is an omni and was the entire time I was vegan, so living with a nonvegan excluded me from the vegan purity club (go to any animal rights/radical vegan forum and find all kinds of "Eew" threads towards those living with omnis). I began to see how awful and judgmental other vegans could be, and eventually I opened my eyes and saw that I was the exact same way, and I hated myself. I had never intended for my veganism to be like that. When I started it was about love for all creatures, peace, compassion. Somewhere along the line it turned to frustration, judgment, never being able to live fully up to an ideal. It became a religion I ate slept and breathed daily, and nothing else mattered. The more people I could convince and convert, the better the vegan I was. I began to really search inside myself and think about this ideal.
To me, a world that is truly vegan means no more pets/animal companions, at least not ones who need meat to survive, such as cats. Pet ownership means we are exploiting animals on some level, like it or not. It means the medical establishment would have to radically change so that many many current medications would be obsolete, many life saving procedures would have to go by the wayside because they might involve the use of animal parts at some point were tested on animals. It would mean drastically reducing human population if we are going to share our world with all other species and no hunting allowed. It would mean human sterilization (and I can see it becoming mandatory by some vegan standards). We'd have to stop building structures and towns which take away from wild animal populations and hurt wildlife. In some areas of the world, people would have to leave them because in order to inhabit some areas, there has to be some form of meat eating as vegetation is just not as abundant.
I just don't see the world ever being 100% vegan, and there are too many people unwilling or unable to become vegan. I see a better focus on smaller scale farming, pasture raised and humanely treated livestock (I have visited a few smaller local farms lately and this is possible, though yes by definition the animals are "exploited" for humans), hunting for survival as opposed to sport. Less animal based fast food. Eating more plants and less meat, but not expecting a radical shift to all vegan all the time. Making healthy food more accessible to all.
I also understand that meat eating and hunting have been a part of human nature since the beginning of time. Humans are omnivores. Yes, we can live without meat, but a vegan world is a very radical shift from the natural world on so many levels, and it does involve denying one's nature on some level. Cruelty free is nearly impossible. Every choice we make involves the death or harm of an animal somewhere.
I didn't have a ton of health issues in my 6.5 years of being vegan. I already had severe osteoporosis before I went vegan, but in the years of having DEXA scans as an omni, my bone density stayed close to the same. Four years into being vegan and having a DEXA scan, it took a drastic dive (-3.0 for years as an omni, -3.8 as a vegan), despite daily consumption of low oxalate leafy greens, plant milks, almonds, chia seeds, black strap molasses, exercise, etc My iron was still normal but trending towards low normal. But the hardest issue was a long standing eating disorder/anorexia that i battled for many years (as an omni and vegan). Though my diet as a vegan was varied and abundant in some regards (and I also achieved a normal weight range as a vegan in recovery), it was still restrictive, there were many rules, and the social aspects of eating out or around others presented challenges as a person with an eating disorder. I had to let go of being vegan to take the next step in fighting my eating disorder and letting go of rules and restrictions.
Most of my vegan friends have been nice about it, accepting me and my move to lacto ovo vegetarian. But I did have to shut myself off a lot of vegan online groups and friends that were less than "nice". I still make a great effort to source my eggs and dairy locally and have visited the farms where most of it comes from. I am not going to lie that all my food comes from a happy place, especially when eating out where I have less choice in where the food is sourced. I'm trying to understand that avoiding cruelty is impossible, and nature is not this idealic magical place where everything lives peacefully and happily all the time. Humans have a symbiotic relationship with animal and plants around them. We are not separate from that. Right now I am reading a few books about the history of milk and animal farming, both of which go back a long long way. I'm trying to find objective sources and not propaganda. So I can learn about all sides of these issues.
I'm a much happier and less judgmental person than I was before. I also find myself cringing at some vegan propaganda that I might have cheered just a few years ago. I don't consider myself "anti vegan" now, but I can definitely see why others would be.
thanks for a very objective view on eating habits and your past and present experiences and attitude. Regardless of what side we are on, some people can be very judgmental. It is hard for some to understand what works for one person may not for another and there is no totally right or wrong way.
thanks for a very objective view on eating habits and your past and present experiences and attitude. Regardless of what side we are on, some people can be very judgmental. It is hard for some to understand what works for one person may not for another and there is no totally right or wrong way.
This is true! In my 6.5 years of being either vegetarian or vegan, I have rarely encountered anyone on a personal level who was totally against veganism. Most just don't understand what it's about. A few were concerned about my health (I wasn't exactly the picture perfect example of health either considering I was underweight for over half my time as a vegan). I am fortunate I didn't experience the obnoxious umm love bacon comments others seem to. I have really only seen anti vegan agenda on sites that heavily promote some forms of Paleo or Atkins diets, though even among those, there are vegan friendly recipes and ideas. The Weston Price foundation however, is ardently anti vegan in terms of nutrition. To each side there is an equal and opposite, and I do believe they are it lol.
When I first went vegan, I did encounter some resistance from family, who insisted you need meat and dairy to thrive. My husbands parents were worse in this regard, but they eventually came to accept my lifestyle and were gracious and accommodating. My husband was also accommodating and ate exclusively vegetarian at home for years (though occasionally he would sneak meat into the house and try to hide the evidence lol). I taught them all a lot about plant based eating, and his mother took some of my ideas on board to help lower her cholesterol. I think it is all about one's attitude and how they present their lifestyle. Preachiness and shaming often leads to defensiveness on the part of the receiver. Being persistent when the receiver makes it clear they are not interested also doesn't help. When a person is ready or wants to change, they will.
Why are people against veganism? I think it's a cultural thing. We are Americans. We are supposed to kill animals and eat them. It's manly. What's more american than a hot dog.
Plus, we have all been brainwashed by corporations. For decades they tell us what we should eat and that it's good for us. And they have corporate sponsored studies to prove it.
It is because some Vegans are radical leftists that try to force their views (eating an other things) onto other people. Not all mind you, but some. It also becomes some weird "badge of honor" with an I am better than you attitude. I eat, a healthy well balanced diet with lots of vegetables, and lean meat, but I don't try to force others to do the same, nor do I look down on them.
This is so wrong. People are not ignoring anything. I'm fully aware of where meat comes from. It's a dead animal. See no delusions at all. Animals are killed everyday for food. I don't see the difference between a lion eating a zebra and me eating a chicken wing. It's nature. Please don't conflate this with factory farming. That's a different issue entirely.
As for needing meat, people are aware that they could live without it and live plant based. Please DON'T insult our intelligence by believing we just don't know these things.
It all comes down to choice. Are you going to take my right to choose away from me?
Speaking of choices...
Lion doesn't have a choice. You do.
To the op, I don't think anyone is against veganism.
They are against people in their face about their food choices. Most people are, whether they are eating kale or donuts or ribeye.
Again, I have to question why you are arguing on a vegetarian/vegan food forum?
Eat meat, that is your choice, we get it. But that's not entirely relevant here.
I never come into the vegan forum. I saw the title of the OP on the "scroll" and it caught my eye. That's why my first post in this thread is so short. Little did I know that there was an entire vegan community that had taken the time to create and perpetuate false narratives about meat eaters. I honestly didn't know this was going on. It's been an eye opener and somewhat of a sad education.
Is this forum meant to be a free, safe space to trash people?
I would like to think people would want to build bridges to reach each other instead of tearing them down.
Oh well. Vegans, I don't think a negative thing about you. I know you don't agree with me, but I would at least expect the same in return.
Made my mom watch " What the health". The movie talks about the dangers of eating animal products. Short term and long. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis. even with out the health issues the toll on the earth is unimaginable. I like this movie because it breaks it down with the facts, doctors, nutritionist and people who were actually going through these diseases. I work at a grocery store and I see people spend $100 or more on junk food and call it " necessity". And sometimes Ill ask " Where are the fruits and vegetables?" or " Wheres the real food?, this stuffs bad for you!". Deep down they know its bad but people do it ANYWAY! one lady even replied " Well.. I'm gonna die someday" as if that justifies living on junk 24 hours a day. The truth is people want to be lied to. They don't want someone telling them that they're favorite food could lead to an untimely death. After my mom saw the documentary she buys a fryer ( to fry foods) a week later. And its just proof that most are so brainwashed by the media so much that even when the truth is revealed they won't accept it. How can we change the world if the world doesn't want to be changed?
While I applaud your personal commitment to pursuing optimal health, I would caution you that it is inappropriate to criticize your customers' food choices. You are not in a role to give nutrition advice as a supermarket checker. If you truly want to have an impact, let me suggest that you pursue an education and profession as a registered dietician and work with people who desire your input. As it stands, you are just presenting yourself as an obnoxious busybody, and that tends to turn people off.
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