Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I, too, have always thought it was funny that everyone's takeaway from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is that homosexuality is the major sin here, not, you know, gang-raping innocent strangers or local young girls. If I remember correctly, this is the section of the Bible people rely on the most in their argument that homosexuality is a sin, and it is somewhat vague at best. You know, I think God's real gift to us is our conscience and I wish people would use it more!
I think the point of this thread is that if you are a businessman who owns a well-loved fast food establishment and you decide to take a controversial political stance for no real reason, yes, people will take note and it will come back to haunt you in some way.
Once again, I find myself strongly agreeing with you. If for no other reason, because a lot of the people who side with CFA, keep trying to twist things and state that the people who took issue with the stance, took issue with freedom of speech. I didn't take issue with freedom of speech. I took issue with a national retailer, taking a political/religious stance ... financially supporting groups who shared the stance ... all the while and without objection, still taking the business of the people they take an personal issue with. Gay people eat at CFA all the time. CFA gladly took/takes their money.
I don't think ANY retailer, has a right to have such a stance. We're not talking about a single individual working for Ford, who had a personal opinion that negatively impacts homosexuals. The individual personal opinion does not speak for Ford. We're basically talking about the President/CEO of Ford, having a negative opinion on homosexuality. In that role, it became the word of the ENTIRE corporation, especially if Ford were actually contributing money to causes who were against homosexuality.
Anyone not understanding something this simple, is clearly just not wanting to admit they don't have a foot to stand on.
The losing battle that ignorant-minded / closest bigots face when dealing with gay marriage debates, mirrors that of a typical religious debate. I don't want to offend the believers (looks like you're one of them) but it is what it is. My point being... you're going to get nothing but the run around. You're not going to get an actual, tangible answer as to how a homosexual couple in Seattle, Washington getting married, will affect an unknowing married couple in Miami, Florida. There just isn't a rational or reasonable answer. It's just poorly disguised closet hatred, lack of understand, ignorance, etc. You'll find an answer to 'What's the meaning of life?' before you find an answer to why a normal human being who has NO RIGHT to judge others—based on the text of the good book they are so bound to—is so against gay marriage.
If the best argument is comparing gay marriage to looking the other way to a thief... you already know you've won the battle. Thievery harms everyone, be it directly or indirectly. Thieves directly affect the person(s) who were robbed. Thievery indirectly affects people, because the general consumer ends up paying higher prices to offset the costs of the stolen product(s).
A gay couple getting married in New Hampshire isn't directly or indirectly affecting Tom and Lacey in Denver, Colorado. Tom and Lacey are going to continue living their lives, blissfully unaware that a gay couple in New Hampshire, just got married. However, Tom and Lacey speaking out against gay marriage ... voting for laws that prohibit gay marriages and discriminating against gay couples ... directly and indirectly affect the gay couple in New Hampshire and gay people around the world, not just the U.S. The gay couple in New Hampshire now has to feel like a second class citizen to the superior, holier-than-thou straight people of the nation. The gay couple doesn't get the right to have their serious relationship recognized by law, nor do they get to benefit from the same legal rights a heterosexual couple has. The gay couple is now living in their own modern-day 1950-60s version of civil rights discrimination.
If anyone is getting 'harmed,' it sure as hell isn't the straight people of the nation.
+1 How do you post one of those applause motion pics on these forums?
I thought we learned in the first grade, that composing thoughts in one giant paragraph, was a major grammatical error? Therefore, I didn't waste my time reading any of your rant, so all of those wasted keystrokes were just one giant fail. I'm not going to entertain some fool who can't even properly form a formidable thought.
Because you have no response. That's just an excuse and a cop out just like you did earlier. Every time I call you out in this thread, you avoid responding.
I, too, have always thought it was funny that everyone's takeaway from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is that homosexuality is the major sin here, not, you know, gang-raping innocent strangers or local young girls. If I remember correctly, this is the section of the Bible people rely on the most in their argument that homosexuality is a sin, and it is somewhat vague at best. You know, I think God's real gift to us is our conscience and I wish people would use it more!
I think the point of this thread is that if you are a businessman who owns a well-loved fast food establishment and you decide to take a controversial political stance for no real reason, yes, people will take note and it will come back to haunt you in some way.
You notice how you are a Christian, but you seem to have views that agree with an atheist. Think about that for a moment.
I can think of many, many scriptures that support the notion that homosexuality is wrong and many of them, believe it or not are in the new testament and some of them are even said by Jesus himself. But you as a believer, already know that.
It's only okay to take a controversial political stance when it support something that you agree with. If you have an issue with controversial political views, then you should have an issue with places like Starbucks and Apple for instance.
You know, it really dilutes your point when you complain about someone calling you names and then you proceed to call them "brainwashed." Just a tip.
Also, and I just noticed this... your statement is sort of creepy. Homosexuals have brainwashed us into thinking that they have rights? Come on man, you sound like you want to keep gay people in cages or something. We would love for you to come join us here in the year 2013, where everyone has "rights" and gets to choose how to live, whether you agree with that choice or not.
Calling someone brainwashed isn't name calling, it's the God honest truth. You go to church, yet you believe in half the stuff that contradicts what you supposedly believe in the Bible. What kind of believer are you? You repeat many of the same points that they say on the news and you have the same political views of an atheist? What conclusion should I draw about you? Certainly not someone that is gaining wisdom from a Biblical perspective.
Rights meaning marriage rights, not rights in general. That is something that I made very clear in my post, but you are trying to cherry pick any small thing. I am not arguing anything against homosexuals here other than that they should not be allowed to get married.
Once again, I find myself strongly agreeing with you. If for no other reason, because a lot of the people who side with CFA, keep trying to twist things and state that the people who took issue with the stance, took issue with freedom of speech. I didn't take issue with freedom of speech. I took issue with a national retailer, taking a political/religious stance ... financially supporting groups who shared the stance ... all the while and without objection, still taking the business of the people they take an personal issue with. Gay people eat at CFA all the time. CFA gladly took/takes their money.
I don't think ANY retailer, has a right to have such a stance. We're not talking about a single individual working for Ford, who had a personal opinion that negatively impacts homosexuals. The individual personal opinion does not speak for Ford. We're basically talking about the President/CEO of Ford, having a negative opinion on homosexuality. In that role, it became the word of the ENTIRE corporation, especially if Ford were actually contributing money to causes who were against homosexuality.
Anyone not understanding something this simple, is clearly just not wanting to admit they don't have a foot to stand on.
This shows you, how ignorant you really are on this topic. There are gay people who not only patronize but also work for CFA. If they believed they were being discriminated against, then there would be tons of lawsuits going on now. Saying that you believe in the traditional definition of marriage (something that your company has always stated), then you aren't discriminating, you are stating what you believe. If he was discriminating, he would say that he wouldn't hire gays, wouldn't serve gays. Does that actually happen? Of course not, you even admitted they still eat there, so why would gays eat at a place if they thought the people serving them hated them?
[quote=Khemistry;29125071]FYI... out of the twenty-seven (27) books in the New Testament, thirteen (13) were written by one man... PAUL. These include: Romans, 1st Corithians, 2nd Corithians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st Thessalonians, 2nd Thessalonians, 1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and Hebrews. Why does this matter?? Because out of the three (3) versus in the New Testament that condemned homosexuality, ALL three were written by Paul. Reverend Greg Dell mentioned, "Paul stated that if you don't worship God, properly, God will confuse your sexual identity.' That's part of the reason why I believe Paul was a deeply repressed gay man ... Homosexuality is not abnormal. It is not unnatural. We can identify it in the world of higher mammals [animals]." Paul also widely used the word "natural" and tied it into homosexuality. The problem is, most theologists have concluded that the term "natural" back in those times, didn't mean what it does, today. The term "natural" meant what was considered "popular" in those days. And to go even further, Paul uses the term "natural" to suggest that he felt people should be "natural" in the way he was natural... which was to be an unmarried CELIBATE man. QUOTE]
What was homosexuality in Paul's day? Was it mostly same sex consenting couples living in domestic tranquility? No, Paul was born and raised as a Greek speaking Jew in a Hellanistic city, Tarsus. Homosexuality meant mostly pederasty; young boys, older men. Orgies, including homosexual acts, were common once that lead-filled wine got flowing. We still view most of those actions, especially the pedophilia as wrong today.
That is what Paul is talking about. Christians are Christ's body on earth. When you defile yourself with pedophila and orgies, you defile Christ. To insinuate that Paul's theology is repressed homosexuality is a very fringe hypothesis that ignores the bulk of Paul's teachings and glosses over what homosexuality was in the ancient world.
And that is what this boils down to, the teachings of Paul. It is VERY hard for any Christian to dismiss what Paul says. He speaks the Word of God in a way that is profound yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The fact that nearly 1/2 the New Testament was written by Paul isn't just a freak chance of history. He was the foundation of Christian theology. Jesus did the work, Paul framed the ideas for a world-wide audience. Paul is the reason Christianity didn't die on the vine in Judea, but rather expanded throughout the Roman Empire and became a world religion.
Look, I don't hate on gays. I understand equal rights in a free society. But no Christian can just dismiss what Paul says so casually and be taken seriously. I wish he were alive today to defend his own teachings. I would just say "Go read Paul" it is all there, but it is a lot reading, and my experience is that even most knowledgable Christians are only able to gloss the surface of what he was trying to say. Just like Paul's celibacy, he took his calling as the Servant of Christ and "least" of the Apostles to its extreme. It was his entire life, no time for family. He had no problems with other Apostles and encouraged other Christians, to get married if they couldn't devote themselves like he could. His writing are clear about his.
Last edited by westsideboy; 04-14-2013 at 10:11 PM..
FYI... out of the twenty-seven (27) books in the New Testament, thirteen (13) were written by one man... PAUL. These include: Romans, 1st Corithians, 2nd Corithians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st Thessalonians, 2nd Thessalonians, 1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and Hebrews. Why does this matter?? Because out of the three (3) versus in the New Testament that condemned homosexuality, ALL three were written by Paul. Reverend Greg Dell mentioned, "Paul stated that if you don't worship God, properly, God will confuse your sexual identity.' That's part of the reason why I believe Paul was a deeply repressed gay man ... Homosexuality is not abnormal. It is not unnatural. We can identify it in the world of higher mammals [animals]." Paul also widely used the word "natural" and tied it into homosexuality. The problem is, most theologists have concluded that the term "natural" back in those times, didn't mean what it does, today. The term "natural" meant what was considered "popular" in those days. And to go even further, Paul uses the term "natural" to suggest that he felt people should be "natural" in the way he was natural... which was to be an unmarried CELIBATE man. QUOTE]
What was homosexuality in Paul's day? Was it mostly same sex consenting couples living in domestic tranquility? No, Paul was born and raised as a Greek speaking Jew in a Hellanistic city, Tarsus. Homosexuality meant mostly pederasty; young boys, older men. Orgies, including homosexual acts, were common once that lead-filled wine got flowing. We still view most of those actions, especially the pedophilia as wrong today.
That is what Paul is talking about. Christians are Christ's body on earth. When you defile yourself with pedophila and orgies, you defile Christ. To insinuate that Paul's theology is repressed homosexuality is a very fringe hypothesis that ignores the bulk of Paul's teachings and glosses over what homosexuality was in the ancient world.
And that is what this boils down to, the teachings of Paul. It is VERY hard for any Christian to dismiss what Paul says. He speaks the Word of God in a way that is profound yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The fact that nearly 1/2 the New Testament was written by Paul isn't just a freak chance of history. He was the foundation of Christian theology. Jesus did the work, Paul framed the ideas for a world-wide audience. Paul is the reason Christianity didn't die on the vine in Judea, but rather expanded throughout the Roman Empire and became a world religion.
Look, I don't hate on gays. I understand equal rights. But no Christian can just dismiss what Paul says so casually and be taken seriously. I wish he were alive today to defend his own teachings. I would just say "Go read Paul" it is all there, but it is a lot reading, and my experience is that even most knowledgable Christians are only able to gloss the surface of what he was trying to say. Just like Paul's celibacy. He took his calling as the Servant of Christ to its extreme. It was his entire life, no time for family, we had no problems with other Apostles and encouraged other Christians, to get married if they couldn't devote themselves like he could. His writing are clear about his.
No offense... but I'm going to trust TRAINED theologists with degrees in theology, over someone else who has a distorted, skewed view of the bible.
THEOLOGISTS WITH DOCTORATE DEGREES >>> ALL OTHERS
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Smdh here
