Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Philly is 43% black and the gentrifying neighborhoods are majority black. It's not terribly far from the DC make-up although there are differences. While many of the same issues surround gentrification there, the bitterness isn't as sharp, the racial divide isn't as wide and I think there is more cultural common-ground between the long-time residents and people moving in and between different socioeconomic classes in general.
I really don't know how to articulate it, but I feel as though there is a deep pride in working hard in Philly even if you're struggling, whereas there is a deep bitterness for having to work hard in DC if you're struggling. I think that adds the the unique cultural divide in DC, and is probably caused by the success gap in DC. Overall, I think that bitterness has led to a cultural environment in DC that can be overwhelmingly self defeating.
This is only a guess...but since Philadelphia is very working class...and whites are a strong element of that, I think it has a lot of meaning. Both races can easily identify with each other's situations and experiences living there.
My perception of DC is that many whites there are very upper class, with a mix of middle class whites who did well educationally and appear indistinguishable. There is a natural distrust of that regardless of your color, if you are working class of modest means.
This is only a guess...but since Philadelphia is very working class...and whites are a strong element of that, I think it has a lot of meaning. Both races can easily identify with each other's situations and experiences living there.
My perception of DC is that many whites there are very upper class, with a mix of middle class whites who did well educationally and appear indistinguishable. There is a natural distrust of that regardless of your color, if you are working class of modest means.
It was interesting, in the WAPO Express article on black gentrification in Anacostia, they quoted some buppie (black urban professional) as thinking gentrification meant whites moving into a black nabe.
In the late 80s to 1992 my wife and I lived on the waterfront in the gentrified part of Canton in East Baltimore. I sometimes took a bus from downtown that dropped me in the "ungentrified" part of Canton. Once, while walking home, some of the kids stared at me, one made a remark about what I was, and the other said "he must live in that hotel by the water" (to these kids any luxury apt building was a "hotel")
The boys were white. The remark was "he's one of them bosses" not a reference to my race or ethnicity. They knew I was different cause I worse a suit and tie. I was certainly a gentrifier. I was certainly threatening (in fact since that time those blocks have pretty much gentrified, IIUC). And yeah, lots of them were renting those little houses, and they probably would have been better off leaving the miserable Baltimore City Schools for better options in the cheaper suburbs. Sound familiar?
In Baltimore gentrification did not necessarily mean RACIAL displacement (though in some areas it did)
Let's be real. DC is a majority black city and many black residents feel that "others" are encroaching on their territory. Instead of saying, "Magnet schools are wonderful. I'll make sure my kid gets into one of those so he can get the best education possible," they say, "Magnet schools? Y'all are just building those for the white folks. Just like dog parks!" And that's basically what it comes down to. We see examples of this mentality on C-D all the time.
"Streetcars? They're just building that for the white folks!"
"Grocery stores? They're just building those for the white folks!"
"Locking up drug dealers, fixing up houses, and restoring city services? They're just doing that for the white folks."
It's this type of thinking that puts guys like Vincent Gray in office. Philly is not a majority black city so we don't have to deal with this issue as much.
Observing last year's election from outside of DC was an eye opening experience. Who knew good schools and bike lanes were a concern only for whites and that a black mayor wanting such things had betrayed his race?
This is only a guess...but since Philadelphia is very working class...and whites are a strong element of that, I think it has a lot of meaning. Both races can easily identify with each other's situations and experiences living there.
My perception of DC is that many whites there are very upper class, with a mix of middle class whites who did well educationally and appear indistinguishable. There is a natural distrust of that regardless of your color, if you are working class of modest means.
As someone who grew up in the DC area I agree with what you are saying. The whites I encountered at school were middle class and above. I had very little interaction with poorer whites although they were present but they tended to be more rural.
Fast forward to going to Morgan St and driving through some pretty scary hoods in Baltimore and a significant number of the people walking around were white. I was shocked. I remember asking a coworker about this at the restuarant I worked at the time and she said the area I was in must have been Pigtown. I never knew such places existed, white ghettos, up to that point.
Observing last year's election from outside of DC was an eye opening experience. Who knew good schools and bike lanes were a concern only for whites and that a black mayor wanting such things had betrayed his race?
My take was not that folks didn’t think that these were good things necessarily. It was more of a resentment that white folks are demanding things they want and they get them.
I’m no sociologist or psychologist, but it seems there’s a general mindset divide in terms of expectations and entitlements.
Black folks have been taught to defy the system at worst or work the system at best. White folks feel entitled, as they get taught that the system should work for them. And when it doesn’t they have access to the avenues—and let’s face it— the capital to expect that they can change “the system."
I’ve done a bit of mentoring and half the battle is always getting the kids to “buy in” that they too should feel entitled and if they do the right things the system will work for them-- get an education, don’t become a parent, stay on the straight and narrow, etc. But that’s a hard argument to make when they don’t have success models and that resentment just brews and brews and brews…
My take was not that folks didn’t think that these were good things necessarily. It was more of a resentment that white folks are demanding things they want and they get them.
I’m no sociologist or psychologist, but it seems there’s a general mindset divide in terms of expectations and entitlements.
Black folks have been taught to defy the system at worst or work the system at best. White folks feel entitled, as they get taught that the system should work for them. And when it doesn’t they have access to the avenues—and let’s face it— the capital to expect that they can change “the system."
I’ve done a bit of mentoring and half the battle is always getting the kids to “buy in†that they too should feel entitled and if they do the right things the system will work for them-- get an education, don’t become a parent, stay on the straight and narrow, etc. But that’s a hard argument to make when they don’t have success models and that resentment just brews and brews and brews…
My take was not that folks didn’t think that these were good things necessarily. It was more of a resentment that white folks are demanding things they want and they get them.
I’m no sociologist or psychologist, but it seems there’s a general mindset divide in terms of expectations and entitlements.
Black folks have been taught to defy the system at worst or work the system at best. White folks feel entitled, as they get taught that the system should work for them. And when it doesn’t they have access to the avenues—and let’s face it— the capital to expect that they can change “the system."
I’ve done a bit of mentoring and half the battle is always getting the kids to “buy in” that they too should feel entitled and if they do the right things the system will work for them-- get an education, don’t become a parent, stay on the straight and narrow, etc. But that’s a hard argument to make when they don’t have success models and that resentment just brews and brews and brews…
And it get's even harder to sell that message when you have a community that see blacks who do everything "the right way" still getting underhanded and ridiculed from "both sides." I'll give the DC's (and for that matter, PG's) black community this: They maybe poor and wreckless but they're not that dumb. From one side, you'll get a group or people who will see you as a sellout and Uncle Tom for being a productive citizen. Want to have a white-collar job and still be in touch with the local black community you were raised with? Forget about it! On the other side, your success will just cause resentment, be seen as a "threat to the balance of power," and seen as something gained by "Affirmative Action." You can also see this lack of acceptance from how some gentrifiers are reacting to black gentrifiers in "hip and trendy" neighborhoods.
From personal experience and living in PG County for a time, I can safely say that if you're black, in order to maintain good social standing with and "the community" and even friends and family members, it's better off to be a hoodlum. It'll save you years of social isolation and ridicule, and it isn't like there's another community that will accept you even if you're "assimilated/Americanized." Being embraced as a non-stereotypical black person will work wonders in Montgomery County and Northern VA, but in DC itself and PG County, that's the easiest way to get on the "Most Wanted/Public Enemy #1" list.
This is the reason why it baffles me when people say DC's a great place for blacks. That's unless you count places like Montgomery, Fairfax, Loudoun, and even places like Prince William and Charles County. For the latter two, the socioeconomic gap is probably the most narrow between blacks and whites/other non-blacks.
This definitely isn't an excuse for the attitudes you see from most DC natives, especially the "crab-mentality" attitudes they give to their own local residents who socioeconomically uplift themselves.
Last edited by Do a Barrel Roll; 07-30-2011 at 01:56 PM..
And it get's even harder to sell that message when you have a community that see blacks who do everything "the right way" still getting underhanded and ridiculed from "both sides." I'll give the DC's (and for that matter, PG's) black community this: They maybe poor and wreckless but they're not that dumb. From one side, you'll get a group or people who will see you as a sellout and Uncle Tom for being a productive citizen. Want to have a white-collar job and still be in touch with the local black community you were raised with? Forget about it! On the other side, your success will just cause resentment, be seen as a "threat to the balance of power," and seen as something gained by "Affirmative Action." You can also see this lack of acceptance from how some gentrifiers are reacting to black gentrifiers in "hip and trendy" neighborhoods.
From personal experience and living in PG County for a time, I can safely say that if you're black, in order to maintain good social standing with and "the community" and even friends and family members, it's better off to be a hoodlum. It'll save you years of social isolation and ridicule, and it isn't like there's another community that will accept you even if you're "assimilated/Americanized." Being embraced as a non-stereotypical black person will work wonders in Montgomery County and Northern VA, but in DC itself and PG County, that's the easiest way to get on the "Most Wanted/Public Enemy #1" list.
This is the reason why it baffles me when people say DC's a great place for blacks. That's unless you count places like Montgomery, Fairfax, Loudoun, and even places like Prince William and Charles County. For the latter two, the socioeconomic gap is probably the most narrow between blacks and whites/other non-blacks.
This definitely isn't an excuse for the attitudes you see from most DC natives, especially the "crab-mentality" attitudes they give to their own local residents who socioeconomically uplift themselves.
Parts of Prince William County are succumbing to the same problems PG County is facing. Unfortunately, mostly caused by the same group of people.
Location: Standing outside of heaven, wating for God to come and get me.
1,382 posts, read 3,716,773 times
Reputation: 537
Smh @ The Fairfaxian.
Personally, I think DC is a great place for black people. I have a white collar job and I still get along with locals.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
