Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I mathed it out a while back, and my monthly "fuel" cost for an EV would be a third of what my gas car costs. Sounds great! But if everyone switched to electric vehicles over then next few years and gas vehicles dropped to 10% of the road population, YOU BET someone would find a way to bring the energy prices up to the equivalent of gas. Or there'd be some extremely high goofy registration tax increase to "catch the lost revenue" in lost gas-taxes-per-gallon or some dumb crap from switching away to EV. Or there'll be some law where you have to upgrade your house to have some special doohickey that allows them to track EV charging and rate you an equivalent price to gas. One way or another, it'll still be expensive to fill the car (be it with gas or electricity). Someone. will. find. a. way. US metropolitan areas being designed to necessitate a mandatory 'car culture' creates a massive captive audience for various taxes regarding fuel and registration. Not that that detracts from the environmental benefit of EVs; it's still good to switch. But I feel it's a pipe dream to expect it to be cheaper to charge an EV than to fill a gas car in the long term. And this is irrespective of upgrading the electric grid to handle it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
While I agree, that cannot happen. There is no longer any speed enforcement. I drive I90 from Issaquah to Seattle at about 5am and again at 2:30pm, and the traffic is moving at 70-75 (speed limit 60). One day I was at 72 and a motorcycle passed me in the carpool lane like I was standing still, probably 90-100 mph. A State Patrol car was on the shoulder and he just ignored it. That's the governor's "no chasing" law. Speed enforcement is limited to the city streets where someone is going 35 in a 25 zone and traffic prevents them from making a run for it.
In Phoenix, I went by biker cops with a radar gun out half a dozen times where I was going 55-60 in a 45, or 80 on the freeway in a 65, and nothing happened. No idea what they were looking for, but, it wasn't 15 over. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All the emissions-reducing-speed-limit laws in the country won't help if it's not heavily and brutally enforced. With enforcement being what it is, over-limit driving will always be a thing, regardless of what the limit is. If you want a 55MPH reality, you best set the speed limits in town and on the freeway to 35 and hope people are too scared to go more than 20 over!
Simple. We had 55 MPH speed limits for 23 years until Clinton/Gore decided to get rid of it. In the early years, those speed limits were enforced. A few years ago, California was running short of money and they started enforcing 55 MPH for trucks and trailers. It actually made traffic flow much better on the interstates.
Pass a law that the drivers phone has to be on while driving. Buy the database from Google, Verizon, Apple, etc. on how fast your phone is going.
IF the phone travels more than 55 mph for 30 seconds send them a ticket. The insurance companies know how fast your going.
The speed limits on city freeways should be set to 45. That actually moves the traffic in urban areas better than higher speeds. It is the frequent lane changers that slow urban traffic.
I don't know of ANY city streets in the Wenatchee area that have a speed limit greater than 40 MPH.
Except for the clueless WADOT, which actually raises the speed limit to 50 MPH for a 1/4 MILE on their bridges!!!
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechAndy
Yes this is great news!
I don’t see any problem with it.
Just go out and buy yourself a new Tesla or whatever kind of EV you wish for if you don’t like the price of gas and quit your whining .
or... just drive your 50 yr old oil burner car that has been using FREE homebrew fuel for 50 yrs. (my current vehicle cost $35, and will go for 500,000 miles with <$1000 of service and maint required.)
80% reduction in emissions, no toxic batteries, no vehicle modifications required.
There should be no "forcing" of de-fossil fueling.... China and ocean freight sure isn't.
Remember, Inslee cancelled the LNG project that would have allowed ships to convert from bunker oil to LNG.
Embrace WFH, encourage EV's with state credits towards purchase, and leave the long haul heavy work stuff to the fuel.
Coal plants can be converted to LNG as a transition.
This all is simply about the money and the state vacuuming up more tax revenue.
There should be no "forcing" of de-fossil fueling.... China and ocean freight sure isn't.
Remember, Inslee cancelled the LNG project that would have allowed ships to convert from bunker oil to LNG.
Embrace WFH, encourage EV's with state credits towards purchase, and leave the long haul heavy work stuff to the fuel.
Coal plants can be converted to LNG as a transition.
This all is simply about the money and the state vacuuming up more tax revenue.
Any chances this could change with the next governor at the helm?
It's never going to work for most Washingtonians only using punitive measures. That includes those who cannot afford to go out and buy new EVs or the costly repairs required of older gen EVs. Just because someone drives a Tesla or some other EV does mean everyone else can. There is no good solution for the masses in WA. Therefore, it is a very poorly thought out policy and half baked at best. They need to a much better path to success than that.
Before the state takes something away (gas powered vehicles), they need to provide a realistic path to alternatives for the masses, not just the limited few.
That's also precisely why other states such as CA, CO, CT, ME, etc... provide significant rebates and incentives as they should to more realistically meet their low emission goals. Otherwise, hitting someone with stick including the elderly, lower and middle class who cannot afford EVs does nothing but put more $$ in politicians' pockets and slush fund to do with as they please. That's our tax dollars ($millions) going somewhere else not helping to solve the problem. Thus, it's not a good approach in its current form. Adding positive monetary incentives would at least begin to provide some relief.
Derek
A lot of people made very foolish car buying decisions when gas prices were lower. I have family members of limited means who drive ENORMOUS SUVs that were unaffordable for them to purchase and barely affordable for them to drive when gas was low. Cars that they absolutely did not need but just wanted for the image.
And then they chose to live way out in the country where getting a quart of milk is a 15 mile round trip errand and it takes an hour to commute to work. Because they want to have their acreage and drive their ATVs around their property.
Now that gas prices have predictably risen they are whining like stuck pigs. Shrug. You don't have to buy a new Tesla. Get a used Prius or Hyundai or something that gets better than 12 mpg.
Choices have consequences. All this was very easy to predict. And we can also predict that in 10 years from today, fuel prices will be even higher and traffic will be worse. It doesn't take a genius to predict that.
A whole lot of people are into prepping when it involves things like building an armory. But when it comes to designing your life to be less addicted to fossil fuels? Which is the real way to prep for the future. That's just not so sexy.
A lot of people made very foolish car buying decisions when gas prices were lower. I have family members of limited means who drive ENORMOUS SUVs that were unaffordable for them to purchase and barely affordable for them to drive when gas was low. Cars that they absolutely did not need but just wanted for the image.
And then they chose to live way out in the country where getting a quart of milk is a 15 mile round trip errand and it takes an hour to commute to work. Because they want to have their acreage and drive their ATVs around their property.
Now that gas prices have predictably risen they are whining like stuck pigs. Shrug. You don't have to buy a new Tesla. Get a used Prius or Hyundai or something that gets better than 12 mpg.
Choices have consequences. All this was very easy to predict. And we can also predict that in 10 years from today, fuel prices will be even higher and traffic will be worse. It doesn't take a genius to predict that.
A whole lot of people are into prepping when it involves things like building an armory. But when it comes to designing your life to be less addicted to fossil fuels? Which is the real way to prep for the future. That's just not so sexy.
Do you know how many poor drive older bad mileage vehicles because it's all they can afford. That would include almost every illegal doing lawn work on your neighbor's house. You can't cram all your lawn eq into a prius.
We bought gas on vaca three years ago for a buck fifty in Carolina.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,062 posts, read 7,497,585 times
Reputation: 9788
We order our last car (Prius 2) in 2008, when gas was peaking at $5 real including OR taxes. We took delivery on ha!loween and gas was sub $4 real, Inc taxes. Fall 2008 was a scary time. We put on 12,000 miles/yr till 2010, then 8,000mi/yr to 2018. From 2018 to present 6/ 2023, we add ~1000mi/yr.
We hedged our vehicle and transportation needs. We ride public and uber/lyft and live in a high walk score home.
Musing about cost;
Gotta pay the Prius tags this week, which is equivalent to 5-6 months of gas, $0.50/day. The insurance for this old car runs $2/day. Gas approx $0.41/day @$4.50/gal. Maintenance and tires ~$365, $1/day. Total cost of ownership and use ~$4/day.
Y$MV
A lot of people made very foolish car buying decisions when gas prices were lower. I have family members of limited means who drive ENORMOUS SUVs that were unaffordable for them to purchase and barely affordable for them to drive when gas was low. Cars that they absolutely did not need but just wanted for the image.
And then they chose to live way out in the country where getting a quart of milk is a 15 mile round trip errand and it takes an hour to commute to work. Because they want to have their acreage and drive their ATVs around their property.
Now that gas prices have predictably risen they are whining like stuck pigs. Shrug. You don't have to buy a new Tesla. Get a used Prius or Hyundai or something that gets better than 12 mpg.
Choices have consequences. All this was very easy to predict. And we can also predict that in 10 years from today, fuel prices will be even higher and traffic will be worse. It doesn't take a genius to predict that.
A whole lot of people are into prepping when it involves things like building an armory. But when it comes to designing your life to be less addicted to fossil fuels? Which is the real way to prep for the future. That's just not so sexy.
I get what you're saying. And living the PNW driving a monster truck or huge suburban can be as much about status as it is an actual necessity. It usually goes with other expensive hobbies. You gotta have something BIG to tow all those toys - boats, fifth wheels, ATVs, motorcycles, on and on. Folks would rather starve than give up a certain lifestyle living on acreage with all the expenses that entails. Maybe its a cultural/generational thing. Then there are the city slickers with their jacked up monster trucks parked next to their lowered sports cars, etc.... We've got that all throughout Clark County. Everyone's got a big gas guzzling truck it seems. If push came to shove, do they really need such gas hogs?
On the flip side, there really are folks that rely on these larger vehicles for their livelihood. For better or worse, those vehicles help bring home the bacon. And they may not be able to go out and buy a latest, fancy electric truck equivalent. Those anemic older Prius will simply not cut it. So, they are stuck with no other option.
All that said, it still doesn't address the larger problem I have with this. That is our current have baked approach only working toward these larger low emission goals with punitive policies in place. Why not instead turn those millions of tax dollars into positive financial rebates/incentives of significance like so many other states are doing working toward these same goals with greater success? Otherwise, it will take a lot longer to reach these goals while only hitting people with that tax stick as the means to a better tomorrow. It's just too short sighted in its current form.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 06-21-2023 at 11:33 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
