Washington State is NOW NUMBER ONE...in gas prices (Seattle: transfer, buy)

[509]

That didn't long being number 2.

Currently, Washington state average gas prices a higher than California by 4.4 cents a gallon according to AAA. I never thought I would see the day when the Washington state government is dumber than the California state government.

Be sure to write the Governor and his fellow Democrats.

[Hemlock140]

The state average is greatly affected by the latest state tax increase. The Costco we use most in Redmond is $4.59, and when we filled at the Burlington Costco Sunday it was just $4.39 there. Where our relatives live in Walnut Creek, CA the nearest Costco is also at $4.39, and like here, many big brands are over $5. With my 36 gallon tank I do shop around and gas up when near a cheaper station.

[Pomelo]

This is great. The only real way to incentivize decreasing consumption to reduce pollution and waste is to tax at the source, fossil fuels. And it should incentivize more dense housing solutions and public transit use, making investments in public transit more popular as well.

[509]

BUT WAIT, there is MORE coming.....Here are the companies that bid on the May auction from the Department of Ecology.

Hmm, Puget Sound energy uses a LOT of coal and natural gas, I guess they are exempt because they import it from out of state?? Where is BOEING?? The most destructive company in the history of man-kind?? Oh, they got a exemption.

If you do business with these companies, your costs will be rising just as fast of faster than gas prices.

WA3591 Avista Corp.-Electric
WA3452 Bellus Ventures III LP
WA3446 BP PRODUCTS NORTH AMERICA INC.
WA3556 Braeswood Climate Partners, LP
WA3542 Brookdale Receivables LLC
WA3530 Cascade Natural Gas Corporation
WA3549 CenTrio Energy Seattle, LLC
WA3562 Charter Oak Carbon Fund II LP
WA3545 CHEVRON U.S.A. INC.
WA3621 CHS Inc.
WA3551 City of Ellensburg
WA3636 CityServiceValcon, LLC
WA3544 Coleman Oil Company, LLC
WA3557 Constellation Energy Generation, LLC
WA3468 CP Energy Marketing (US) Inc
WA3528 East Coast Environmental, LLC
WA3659 Emerald Kalama Chemical, LLC
WA3610 Exxon Mobil Corporation
WA3479 GAS TRANSMISSION NORTHWEST LLC
WA3460 Gelber & Associates Corp
WA3547 Gen IV Investment Opportunities, LLC
WA3457 Grays Harbor Energy LLC
WA3519 HF Sinclair Puget Sound Refining LLC
WA3488 Idemitsu Apollo Corporation
WA3563 Kcarbon Holdings LLC
WA3447 Klima Holdings W LLC
WA3579 Macquarie Energy LLC
WA3435 MARATHON PETROLEUM COMPANY LP
WA3510 Mercuria Energy America LLC
WA3590 Midstream Energy Partners (USA), LLC
WA3536 Morgan Stanley Capital Group Inc.
WA3472 Musket Corporation
WA3442 MV Global Carbon Fund LP
WA3565 NGL Supply Co. Ltd.
WA3496 NORTHWEST PIPELINE LLC
WA3502 NW Natural Gas Co.
WA Auction #2 Summary Report
Publication No. 23-02-057

[509]

Originally Posted by Pomelo

This is great. The only real way to incentivize decreasing consumption to reduce pollution and waste is to tax at the source, fossil fuels. And it should incentivize more dense housing solutions and public transit use, making investments in public transit more popular as well.

Right.

The goal is $9.00 a gallon gas to reduce carbon emissions by 20%.

First, I disagree that CO2 is a pollutant. Did you take plant physiology in school??

Second, we can easily reduce CO2 emissions by 20% tomorrow by driving 55 mph. Inslee can do that tomorrow, but I guess the rich folks want to drive like "bats out of hell".

I would rather drive 55 MPH, than pay $9.00 a gallon for gas.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Pomelo

This is great. The only real way to incentivize decreasing consumption to reduce pollution and waste is to tax at the source, fossil fuels. And it should incentivize more dense housing solutions and public transit use, making investments in public transit more popular as well.

It's never going to work for most Washingtonians only using punitive measures. That includes those who cannot afford to go out and buy new EVs or the costly repairs required of older gen EVs. Just because someone drives a Tesla or some other EV does mean everyone else can. There is no good solution for the masses in WA. Therefore, it is a very poorly thought out policy and half baked at best. They need to a much better path to success than that.

Before the state takes something away (gas powered vehicles), they need to provide a realistic path to alternatives for the masses, not just the limited few.

That's also precisely why other states such as CA, CO, CT, ME, etc... provide significant rebates and incentives as they should to more realistically meet their low emission goals. Otherwise, hitting someone with stick including the elderly, lower and middle class who cannot afford EVs does nothing but put more $$ in politicians' pockets and slush fund to do with as they please. That's our tax dollars ($millions) going somewhere else not helping to solve the problem. Thus, it's not a good approach in its current form. Adding positive monetary incentives would at least begin to provide some relief.

Derek

[MechAndy]

Yes this is great news!
I don’t see any problem with it.
Just go out and buy yourself a new Tesla or whatever kind of EV you wish for if you don’t like the price of gas and quit your whining .

[Pomelo]

Originally Posted by 509

Right.

The goal is $9.00 a gallon gas to reduce carbon emissions by 20%.

First, I disagree that CO2 is a pollutant. Did you take plant physiology in school??

Second, we can easily reduce CO2 emissions by 20% tomorrow by driving 55 mph. Inslee can do that tomorrow, but I guess the rich folks want to drive like "bats out of hell".

I would rather drive 55 MPH, than pay $9.00 a gallon for gas.

I would be down for this too.

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

It's never going to work for most Washingtonians only using punitive measures. That includes those who cannot afford to go out and buy new EVs or the costly repairs required of older gen EVs. Just because someone drives a Tesla or some other EV does mean everyone else can. There is no good solution for the masses in WA. Therefore, it is a very poorly thought out policy and half baked at best. They need to a much better path to success than that.

Before the state takes something away (gas powered vehicles), they need to provide a realistic path to alternatives for the masses, not just the limited few.

That's also precisely why other states such as CA, CO, CT, ME, etc... provide significant rebates and incentives as they should to more realistically meet their low emission goals. Otherwise, hitting someone with stick including the elderly, lower and middle class who cannot afford EVs does nothing but put more $$ in politicians' pockets and slush fund to do with as they please. That's our tax dollars ($millions) going somewhere else not helping to solve the problem. Thus, it's not a good approach in its current form. Adding positive monetary incentives would at least begin to provide some relief.

Derek

One of the fundamental problems we have now is that public transit/walkability/cycle-ability are at complete odds with personal car usage. The only way I envision political support for the former is for personal car usage to become prohibitively expensive, spurring demand for dense housing and shorter distances between destinations.

It is definitely a lot of pain for those invested in the status quo, and while it would be nice if a wealth transfer mechanism accompanied these efforts so that poorer people were less affected, I would not hold my breath.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by Pomelo

I would be down for this too.

One of the fundamental problems we have now is that public transit/walkability/cycle-ability are at complete odds with personal car usage. The only way I envision political support for the former is for personal car usage to become prohibitively expensive, spurring demand for dense housing and shorter distances between destinations.

It is definitely a lot of pain for those invested in the status quo, and while it would be nice if a wealth transfer mechanism accompanied these efforts so that poorer people were less affected, I would not hold my breath.

While somewhat idealist, that sort of model works in areas which are more densely populated. If we only modeled our cities more like some European and Asian countries in some ways it would be great. Why can't we have the trains of Switzerland, Germany and France? But that's a bit of a fairy tale when towns, cities and suburbs are already developed as the stand today. These sorts of things are not going to change any time soon. Most likely not in anyone's lifetime here if at all.

Meanwhile, we have punitive policies affecting Washingtonians today not living in such a utopian society who will still need cars and trucks to get to work, school, childcare and a whole host of daily essentials. These laws in the form of taxes do nothing to help them with any of that. Maybe if they were using the money to improve mass transit, the roads, incentives for purchasing EVs, it come be a real, tangible help. You don't have to hold your breath in other states because they are already taking such positive measures. It's not a handout or a fantasy land. Rather, its putting all those new taxes (millions of dollars) to good use now. So, its quite different than simply penalizing and the fantasizing about how that could magically help everything to change without any realistic plans or funding to get there.

There's nothing wrong with dreaming about a better tomorrow with lower emissions. But that has to put into some kind of workable plan to ever get beyond fantasy daydreams and our money in politicians pockets.

Derek

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by 509

Right.

The goal is $9.00 a gallon gas to reduce carbon emissions by 20%.

First, I disagree that CO2 is a pollutant. Did you take plant physiology in school??

Second, we can easily reduce CO2 emissions by 20% tomorrow by driving 55 mph. Inslee can do that tomorrow, but I guess the rich folks want to drive like "bats out of hell".

I would rather drive 55 MPH, than pay $9.00 a gallon for gas.

While I agree, that cannot happen. There is no longer any speed enforcement. I drive I90 from Issaquah to Seattle at about 5am and again at 2:30pm, and the traffic is moving at 70-75 (speed limit 60). One day I was at 72 and a motorcycle passed me in the carpool lane like I was standing still, probably 90-100 mph. A State Patrol car was on the shoulder and he just ignored it. That's the governor's "no chasing" law. Speed enforcement is limited to the city streets where someone is going 35 in a 25 zone and traffic prevents them from making a run for it.