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Record low in Port Macquarie of -0.6C, with records to 1842. That’s warmer than the lowest high recorded yearly in some of these “subtropical” classified climates.
the record low is actually -3.5c in May, -2.9c in June, -3.0c in July and -2.4c in August.
The AWS at Port Macquarie Airport dating back to 1995. All official Port Macquarie records come from this site,
The old Town site has digitised records from 1910-1920 and 1957-2003, and these are the ones on Wiki.
May 1920: 1.4c, June 1920: 0.0c, July 1918: -0.6c, August 1970: 0.6c
The Airport site is 5klm inland from the original Town site and is located in an open field that is a bit of a frost hollow, hence the colder winter extreme minimums
Airport mean minimums Mean Minimum Temperature - 060139 - Bureau of Meteorology
Town mean minimums Mean Minimum Temperature - 060026 - Bureau of Meteorology
Have to disagree with you there. I was in Port St. Lucie and Fort Pierce in the late 80's after many really cold winters from late 70's on, and there were coco palms everywhere. In fact, right before I got to fort pierce to visit my parents in Feb of 90, after a really terrible record low in dec of 89 (look it up), the coco palms looked fine in fort pierce. I noticed only a couple that looked beat up, and the groundskeeper told me they would look fine by summer since he had seen it happen quite a few times in the 80's there.
the real northern limit for coco's is Vero Beach on east (though there were loads in cocoa beach when i was there as a kid in the 70's) before the really cold 1980's. On west coast it is probably Sarasota. I know at my brothers on sanibel island they sprout in his yard if he doesn't pick the coconuts up.
Being on forums on FB for subtropical gardening in the US, the old timers will tell you that the southeast had huge Canary Island date palms in interior places like Valdosta GA and the 80s wiped many out. Since then, it looks much more subtropical as we haven't had those type winters in decades now. date palms are being planted everywhere down there again as people believe 80s level cold won't be back for years.
Facts but note: Coconut Palms are only hardy I think to 25F or 27F and can only handle temps in the 30s for a very short period even. However, the good thing temps below 30 or below freezing are pretty rare in Port. St. Lucie compared to many places. I heard they are even growing coconut palms in Jax, FL (there this youtube channel called Earth Works Jacksonville - and I think they said they planted coco palms in that area - which honestly shocked me to the max but I never hung out in Jax to confirm it - just went through there via Amtrak in '09) but it may be grown in microclimates and probably get some protection as Jax has colder winters than places in Central FL. I think Earth Works does something to these trees to make them more cold hardy, I'm not sure.
Yeah, I heard that there were more date palms and washies in places like Southern SC, GA, AL, and MS and they were wiped out into oblivion in the 1980s except maybe some cabbage palms and they even got damaged (although many of them recovered in the warmer months). There were pics in the palmtalk forum of date palms and sabals dying in Wilmington, NC after the severe 2018 polar vortex. Pure carnage but I did hear many of those palms recovered but many died as well.
I think the rainy moist hot summer climates should be categorized into 2 groups, the dividing line would be around hardiness zone 7b or so.
I wouldn't even use the word subtropical because it's so tainted, but this dividing line seems to coincide with the atlantic coastal plain, it's harder to grow typical "subtropical" plants like sabal palmettos, spanish moss and live oaks further above this line.
Like in Augusta spanish moss is native and growing on bald cypress trees in swampy areas, palmettos although not native are bullet proof along with butias, there's a gigantic southern live oak out my windows view (in my neighbor's front yard), but further northern georgia cities like Atlanta don't have native spanish moss and they seem to have problems with palmettos.
I've seen several washingtonia robusta around, I've seen 4 healthy phoenix palms, 3 queen palms in a yard, and even a royal palm in someone's yard(the trunk looked like crap the the leaves were amazingly freshly green). In the Summerville area of Augusta there are many gigantic palmettos that are over 100 years old.
Atlanta only seems to be able to have chinese windmills and needle palms prominently because of the increase in elevation, that seems to matter more in the south, in North Carolina it seems to a difference of east to west.
I won't lie, this is not a bad answer. At least you considered the natural ecosystem and how that interacts with the climate. I would say Augusta is subtropical - Atlanta is "subtropical continental" (or "warm humid continental") at best. Augusta is subject to severe cold snaps just like ATL but a cold snap will be a bit more moderate compared to ATL. If the winters are more stable in ATL and Augusta - you would see way more evergreen vegetation and washies will have a better climate to thrive.
That 7b/8a zones in the southeast is sorta tricky because you don't know what to expect. Our winters were mild in the SE pretty much from the early 1990s on but in the 2010s, we start to see a slow return of these polar vortexes that we were hit with in the 1970s and 80s. A few places went below zero in Eastern and Piedmont NC in 2018 and we were hit with single digits in 2014 and 2015. Year 2010 was pretty cold too with insane abnormalities. This leads to anxiety for people who want to grow even the hardiness of subtropical plants and palms (save Windmills and Southern Magnolias)
But yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the word subtropical - I tend to like words like mesothermal and megathermal better. I know the geographic subtropics is 23.5 (N or S) up to 40 (N or S) in latitude (some sources state 35N or S) but when people describe the meteorological and climatological subtropics - it seems everyone can't be on the same page which I understand - it's so many variables that create different climates - it may not always be easy to broadly classify them. As Tom77Falcons and a few others pointed out, North America has a geography that allows the extreme of temps in large areas. The jet stream swings wildly due to certain teleconnections (we have large oceans on both sides of the US and the country is only a few thousands miles wide, Rocky Mountains in the west also manipulating the jet stream to sag deep down south). Simple fact you have these violent tornadoes (EF4+) by dozens is because of the constant clash of polarizing air masses in the US due to the continental nature of North America.
According to the Koppen climate classification system, a climate is considered "subtropical" when no month has a mean average below 50 F. This is why New York City still qualifies as subtropical, even when most people don't think of it as such.
According to the Koppen climate classification system, a climate is considered "subtropical" when no month has a mean average below 50 F. This is why New York City still qualifies as subtropical, even when most people don't think of it as such.
But isnt the New York 'mean' temperature less than 50 F on 5 months of the year!?
According to the Koppen climate classification system, a climate is considered "subtropical" when no month has a mean average below 50 F. This is why New York City still qualifies as subtropical, even when most people don't think of it as such.
As far as I know, Köppen used the German term "Sinisches Klimat" which translates as Sinic or Chinese climate, not subtropical.
Anyway, to me subtropical climates bring to mind those that are cooler and more seasonal than true tropical climates but still warm year-round with either no dry season or a winter minimum in rainfall. Eg southern coastal Brazil, south east coastal South Africa, central coastal eastern Australia etc.
As far as I know, Köppen used the German term "Sinisches Klimat" which translates as Sinic or Chinese climate, not subtropical.
Anyway, to me subtropical climates bring to mind those that are cooler and more seasonal than true tropical climates but still warm year-round with either no dry season or a winter minimum in rainfall. Eg southern coastal Brazil, south east coastal South Africa, central coastal eastern Australia etc.
Anyway, to me subtropical climates bring to mind those that are cooler and more seasonal than true tropical climates but still warm year-round with either no dry season or a winter minimum in rainfall. Eg southern coastal Brazil, south east coastal South Africa, central coastal eastern Australia etc.
I would also include most Mediterranean climates in my definition of subtropical, since my idea of "subtropical" is more based on temperature.
To me, "warm year-round" would require both average daily temperatures above 10 C year round, and some degree of summer heat. San Jose, CA is definitely subtropical in my book even though it's still technically Csb. Same with Auckland (Köppen Cfb), even though its summer average daily temperatures are only ~20 C.
To me, "warm year-round" would require both average daily temperatures above 10 C year round, and some degree of summer heat. San Jose, CA is definitely subtropical in my book even though it's still technically Csb. Same with Auckland (Köppen Cfb), even though its summer average daily temperatures are only ~20 C.
I can agree with this. Of course, I'll also add that at least one month has to have a mean above 18C as well, which is why Monterey and Santa Cruz are not subtropical but oceanic.
Anyway, to me subtropical climates bring to mind those that are cooler and more seasonal than true tropical climates but still warm year-round with either no dry season or a winter minimum in rainfall. Eg southern coastal Brazil, south east coastal South Africa, central coastal eastern Australia etc.
A subtropical location in my view usually has warm and not-as-warm as the seasons.
In addition, some subarctic locations have cold and not-as-cold.
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