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- Subtropical (W2s): annual Txº of 15ºC to 20ºC, Summers with TxºC>=20ºC, Pp with normal regime (wet season
during the warm season or Pp evenly/variable distributed)
The 6C average isotherm in the coldest month seems to be a popular boundary to define a Subtropical climate here. Using that isotherm, the most northerly Subtropical climate in North America is Tillamook, OR at 45°27'N. It has an average of 6.2°C in the coldest month. I have been to Tillamook before. They are well known for their cheese but sadly not for their California fan palms which I have not seen there.
Honorable mention goes to the mildest town in Canada in the winter, Ucluelet, BC which averages 5.5C in its coldest month and is very close to this threshold.
The 6C average isotherm in the coldest month seems to be a popular boundary to define a Subtropical climate here. Using that isotherm, the most northerly Subtropical climate in North America is Tillamook, OR at 45°27'N. It has an average of 6.2°C in the coldest month. I have been to Tillamook before. They are well known for their cheese but sadly not for their California fan palms which I have not seen there.
Honorable mention goes to the mildest town in Canada in the winter, Ucluelet, BC which averages 5.5C in its coldest month and is very close to this threshold.
Correction, Seaside, OR seems to have a slightly higher winter average in its coldest month at 6.7°C and it is a bit further north than Tillamook. I think it is the most northerly subtropical climate at 45°59'N in North America.
Correction, Seaside, OR seems to have a slightly higher winter average in its coldest month at 6.7°C and it is a bit further north than Tillamook. I think it is the most northerly subtropical climate at 45°59'N in North America.
If anyone else can find another one further north, I'd be interested to know
One of this city's three weather stations in CANADA meets it.
Also, 6C/42.8F doesn't necessarily mean California Fan Palms will grow. Atlanta can't grow them, and the ones in Las Cruces don't last in the long run outside of favorable microclimates. Even in El Paso, you can easily tell the difference between colder and warmer neighborhoods in that way; a mean annual temperature of 18C/64.4F seems to be a better indicator for CFPs, as even warm climates slightly below that just lack enough prolonged summer heat.
I mostly believe 6C in winter is a good subtropical indicator for places without a very long (8+ months over 10C or mean annual temperature over 15C) growing season, with 3C/37.4F being a better one for those that don't have even remotely anemic growing seasons for many subtropical plants. There are a few subtropical plants that'll thrive slightly below these thresholds (Needle Palm, Dwarf Palmetto, Southern Magnolia and Escarpment Live Oak are good examples), but they're somewhat hardy and still won't last long even moderately below.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
The 6C average isotherm in the coldest month seems to be a popular boundary to define a Subtropical climate here. Using that isotherm, the most northerly Subtropical climate in North America is Tillamook, OR at 45°27'N. It has an average of 6.2°C in the coldest month. I have been to Tillamook before. They are well known for their cheese but sadly not for their California fan palms which I have not seen there.
Honorable mention goes to the mildest town in Canada in the winter, Ucluelet, BC which averages 5.5C in its coldest month and is very close to this threshold.
One of this city's three weather stations in CANADA meets it.
Also, 6C/42.8F doesn't necessarily mean California Fan Palms will grow. Atlanta can't grow them, and the ones in Las Cruces don't last in the long run outside of favorable microclimates. Even in El Paso, you can easily tell the difference between colder and warmer neighborhoods in that way; a mean annual temperature of 18C/64.4F seems to be a better indicator for CFPs, as even warm climates slightly below that just lack enough prolonged summer heat.
I mostly believe 6C in winter is a good subtropical indicator for places without a very long (8+ months over 10C or mean annual temperature over 15C) growing season, with 3C/37.4F being a better one for those that don't have even remotely anemic growing seasons for many subtropical plants. There are a few subtropical plants that'll thrive slightly below these thresholds (Needle Palm, Dwarf Palmetto, Southern Magnolia and Escarpment Live Oak are good examples), but they're somewhat hardy and still won't last long even moderately below.
For Victoria, I averaged out the 3 weather stations listed in the wiki article and got 5.03C in the coldest month which is below the 5.5C listed for Ucluelet.
Those plants listed above grow fine in the Vancouver area which has below 6C average mean in the coldest month. So what special happens at 6C isotherm in winter in the coldest month is what I want to know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220
I use 6°C if there are 4+ months 18°C+ as well, otherwise said climate is warm oceanic
What palms do you think are suitable for a warm oceanic climate in your opinion vs subtropical?
Evidently I voted long ago, because I originally voted "chilly winters with hot summers".
Today, I would say that a subtropical climate is one with mild winters and hot summers. Basically, a C*a Koppen with winters in the warmer half of the C*a range - about 10-18 C / 50-64 F in the coldest month on average and at least 22 C / 72 F in the warmest month.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78
For Victoria, I averaged out the 3 weather stations listed in the wiki article and got 5.03C in the coldest month which is below the 5.5C listed for Ucluelet.
Those plants listed above grow fine in the Vancouver area which has below 6C average mean in the coldest month. So what special happens at 6C isotherm in winter in the coldest month is what I want to know?
What palms do you think are suitable for a warm oceanic climate in your opinion vs subtropical?
Eureka is a good example of a climate I consider warm oceanic, and they have washingtonia's
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
Any idea if Queen palms grow in Eureka?
Eureka has warmer winters than my climate and Queen palms grow here easily, but not finding any reports of Queen palms in Eureka
Eureka does have cooler summers than you, that might be part of it
I see that Eureka also has CIDPs after looking further
Last edited by FirebirdCamaro1220; 04-18-2020 at 05:07 PM..
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