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Don't worry, he seems to see through McCarthyite glasses seeing anti-Americanism in everything and imagining everyone claims the Isles of Scilly are just like Miami
I will try and make my thoughts a bit 'clearer' for him/her:-
The Isles of Scilly are beautiful, they have wonderful weather, they grow Tropical plants, they have an Oceanic climate (a very nice oceanic climate), the climate of the Scilly's is very different to Miami, its my understanding that Miami does have a 'sub-tropical' climate. I suggest that oceanic climates like Cornwall, the Scilly's, NZ or Vancouver etc etc are 'closer' to sub-tropical climates than anywhere that freezes in the winter months and I suggest that the fact that oceanic climates can support sub-tropical vegetation is a good indicator of why this is so.
Hopefully he/she has a clearer understanding of my views now, as you can see I did not & have not claimed that anywhere in England is 'sub-tropical'!! Here is what is written officially NOT BY ME about the climate of the Scilly's:-
Climate
The Isles of Scilly have a temperate Oceanic climate (Köppen climate classification: Cfb), which borders a humid subtropical climate (Cf) under the Trewartha climate classification.
So there it is - it is a temperate oceanic climate classifaction cfb, which borders a humid subtropical climate cf under the Trewartha climate classification! NOT MY WORDS!
I will try and make my thoughts a bit 'clearer' for him/her:-
The Isles of Scilly are beautiful, they have wonderful weather, they grow Tropical plants, they have an Oceanic climate (a very nice oceanic climate), the climate of the Scilly's is very different to Miami, its my understanding that Miami does have a 'sub-tropical' climate. I suggest that oceanic climates like Cornwall, the Scilly's, NZ or Vancouver etc etc are 'closer' to sub-tropical climates than anywhere that freezes in the winter months and I suggest that the fact that oceanic climates can support sub-tropical vegetation is a good indicator of why this is so.
Hopefully he/she has a clearer understanding of my views now, as you can see I did not & have not claimed that anywhere in England is 'sub-tropical'!! Here is what is written officially NOT BY ME about the climate of the Scilly's:-
Climate
The Isles of Scilly have a temperate Oceanic climate (Köppen climate classification: Cfb), which borders a humid subtropical climate (Cf) under the Trewartha climate classification.
So there it is - it is a temperate oceanic climate classifaction cfb, which borders a humid subtropical climate cf under the Trewartha climate classification! NOT MY WORDS!
Tropical plants in Scilly? Where? I don't see any. The date palms are from the Canaries and the cordylines/cabbage plants are from New Zealand. You must not understand what tropical plants are if you mention Scilly and Miami in the same sentence. The distance between Scilly and Miami is like heaven and earth. Please keep in mind Miami is climatically tropical and warmer than several geographically tropical areas at sea level.
And no, places that get occasional freezes are leagues warmer than Scilly will ever be. If Miami is the sky, New Orleans is Mt. Everest. It's time to wake up from the oceanic delusion. Unless you are talking about average temperatures at freezing? It's unclear what you mean as Scilly and Vancouver do freeze.
Not trying to defend the screwball guy but the presence of moisture with a tropical naissance means nothing. All the atmospheric rivers we get on the coast of British Columbia fall into that category but that doesn't mean the region is under tropical influences.
If anything, the presence of atmospheric rivers in summer (like what just happened in NZ) makes a place more oceanic and less subtropical. Around here, atmospheric rivers are a winter-only thing.
No, not under but it is a tropical influence - really more just a difference in the word influence I think.
Interesting that those flows are only a winter thing where you are - at this time of the year here, they tend to align with the start of the cyclone season. While NZ is on the periphery of that season, it is still a factor in the weather at this time of the year.
Atmosphere rivers aren't really that common here during winter - more typically a series of fast moving fronts with high pressure in between.
No, not under but it is a tropical influence - really more just a difference in the word influence I think.
Interesting that those flows are only a winter thing where you are - at this time of the year here, they tend to align with the start of the cyclone season. While NZ is on the periphery of that season, it is still a factor in the weather at this time of the year.
Atmosphere rivers aren't really that common here during winter - more typically a series of fast moving fronts with high pressure in between.
I think you'll find ARs are actually far more common down there than you realize. It's relatively new terminology reflecting a phenomenon that is only now coming to be understood. Have a read:
Quote:
A Climatology of Atmospheric Rivers in New Zealand
The occurrence of extreme precipitation events in New Zealand regularly results in devastating impacts to the local society and environment. An automated atmospheric river (AR) detection technique (ARDT) is applied to construct a climatology (1979–2019) of extreme midlatitude moisture fluxes conducive to extreme precipitation. A distinct seasonality exists in AR occurrence aligning with seasonal variations in the midlatitude jet streams. The formation of the Southern Hemisphere winter split jet enables AR occurrence to persist through all seasons in northern regions of New Zealand, while southern regions of the country exhibit a substantial (50%) reduction in AR occurrence as the polar jet shifts southward during the cold season. ARs making landfall on the western coast of New Zealand (90% of all events) are characterized by a dominant northwesterly moisture flux associated with a distinct dipole pressure anomaly, with low pressure to the southwest and high pressure to the northeast of New Zealand. Precipitation totals during AR events increase with AR rank (five-point scale) throughout the country, with the most substantial increase on the windward side of the Southern Alps (South Island). The largest events (rank 5 ARs) produce 3-day precipitation totals exceeding 1000 mm. ARs account for up to 78% of total precipitation and up to 94% of extreme precipitation on the west coast of the South Island. Assessment of the multiscale atmospheric processes associated with AR events governing extreme precipitation in the Southern Alps of New Zealand should remain a priority given their hydrological significance and impact on people and infrastructure.
I think you'll find ARs are actually far more common down there than you realize. It's relatively new terminology reflecting a phenomenon that is only now coming to be understood. Have a read:
The emphasis is on the Southern Alps, with these events easily observed during the year.
I take the reduction in winter events of this type, to have a more northerly southern limits that the article implies. The ARs of the PNW seem to be more notable for their long duration, than there rain totals, which is the opposite to the NZ situation.
I will try and make my thoughts a bit 'clearer' for him/her:-
The Isles of Scilly are beautiful, they have wonderful weather, they grow Tropical plants, they have an Oceanic climate (a very nice oceanic climate), the climate of the Scilly's is very different to Miami, its my understanding that Miami does have a 'sub-tropical' climate. I suggest that oceanic climates like Cornwall, the Scilly's, NZ or Vancouver etc etc are 'closer' to sub-tropical climates than anywhere that freezes in the winter months and I suggest that the fact that oceanic climates can support sub-tropical vegetation is a good indicator of why this is so.
Hopefully he/she has a clearer understanding of my views now, as you can see I did not & have not claimed that anywhere in England is 'sub-tropical'!! Here is what is written officially NOT BY ME about the climate of the Scilly's:-
Climate
The Isles of Scilly have a temperate Oceanic climate (Köppen climate classification: Cfb), which borders a humid subtropical climate (Cf) under the Trewartha climate classification.
So there it is - it is a temperate oceanic climate classifaction cfb, which borders a humid subtropical climate cf under the Trewartha climate classification! NOT MY WORDS!
And a continental climate that borders a humid subtropical zone, say Philadelphia, is not temperate and cannot support the vegetation that Scilly Isles can. Simple as that, winter has an impact despite summer heat.
We can't wish this away out of some sort of bruised weird climate nationalism. Oceanic climates have advantages, such as being able to grow more exotic vegetation for aesthetics, and warm summer continental climates have their advantages for people that like a guaranteed hot summer every year. We have to find the climate that best suits us if we can afford it.
Tropical plants in Scilly? Where? I don't see any. The date palms are from the Canaries and the cordylines/cabbage plants are from New Zealand. You must not understand what tropical plants are if you mention Scilly and Miami in the same sentence. The distance between Scilly and Miami is like heaven and earth. Please keep in mind Miami is climatically tropical and warmer than several geographically tropical areas at sea level.
And no, places that get occasional freezes are leagues warmer than Scilly will ever be. If Miami is the sky, New Orleans is Mt. Everest. It's time to wake up from the oceanic delusion. Unless you are talking about average temperatures at freezing? It's unclear what you mean as Scilly and Vancouver do freeze.
New Orleans has suffered devastating freezes that wipes out decades of tropical and subtropical growth that would never happen in Scilly. We must be realistic about the shortcoming of the continentality of North America. New Orleans went down to 11F in 1989 and they had devastating loss of citrus and vegetation.
Such a shame what happened, and would never happen in southern Europe or pretty much any other location at that latitude.
I have actually emailed with this guy numerous times about what grows in NOLA now and so forth.
Nice guy.
Experiencing just one night of 15 degrees in New Orleans with temperatures staying below freezing for a day or two would be far worse than numerous freezes in the mid-20s. The effect on tropicals in our landscapes would be disastrous, as I well know.
I began my horticultural career in 1980 when I was hired as an LSU AgCenter extension horticulturist in Orleans Parish. During the '80s, temperatures dipped down into the upper teens every few years in New Orleans. That chilly decade culminated in the catastrophic freeze of December 1989. Occurring just before Christmas that year, temperatures in New Orleans reached 11 degrees and stayed below freezing for three straight days.
In the midst of the freeze, I remember looking out a window at the snow and ice and actually shedding tears. I knew this freeze would destroy much of the unique beauty provided by our tropical plants, and it simply broke my heart.
And, indeed, the freezes were devastating to area landscapes. Golden rain trees (Koelreuteria bipinnata) and camphor trees (Cinnamomum camphora) were widely planted, and every single one was killed. I remember flying into New Orleans in June 1990 and seeing so many dead trees it almost looked like winter. Many people had to completely change their landscape plantings, as yards previously shaded by 30-year-old rain trees were drenched in sun.
To this day no one can explain what the fu.... happened in the 1980's that it was so cold. I remember, and it was brutal in the eastern US.
Last edited by tom77falcons; 12-13-2021 at 05:53 PM..
New Orleans has suffered devastating freezes that wipes out decades of tropical and subtropical growth that would never happen in Scilly. We must be realistic about the shortcoming of the continentality of North America. New Orleans went down to 11F in 1989 and they had devastating loss of citrus and vegetation.
Such a shame what happened, and would never happen in southern Europe or pretty much any other location at that latitude.
I have actually emailed with this guy numerous times about what grows in NOLA now and so forth.
Nice guy.
Experiencing just one night of 15 degrees in New Orleans with temperatures staying below freezing for a day or two would be far worse than numerous freezes in the mid-20s. The effect on tropicals in our landscapes would be disastrous, as I well know.
I began my horticultural career in 1980 when I was hired as an LSU AgCenter extension horticulturist in Orleans Parish. During the '80s, temperatures dipped down into the upper teens every few years in New Orleans. That chilly decade culminated in the catastrophic freeze of December 1989. Occurring just before Christmas that year, temperatures in New Orleans reached 11 degrees and stayed below freezing for three straight days.
In the midst of the freeze, I remember looking out a window at the snow and ice and actually shedding tears. I knew this freeze would destroy much of the unique beauty provided by our tropical plants, and it simply broke my heart.
And, indeed, the freezes were devastating to area landscapes. Golden rain trees (Koelreuteria bipinnata) and camphor trees (Cinnamomum camphora) were widely planted, and every single one was killed. I remember flying into New Orleans in June 1990 and seeing so many dead trees it almost looked like winter. Many people had to completely change their landscape plantings, as yards previously shaded by 30-year-old rain trees were drenched in sun.
To this day no one can explain what the fu.... happened in the 1980's that it was so cold. I remember, and it was brutal in the eastern US.
All that matters now is that i won't see what i had in the 1980's in many lifetimes as the planet heats up
Never forget that XMAS eve day of 1983 when Tampa started out around 60f and by midnite it was in the 20's and Xmas morning was 19f at my house and a high of 38f. Killed coconuts all down the coast.
Tampa had a 18f in Dec 1962. Now i can't even get below 35f year after year and live north of Tampa.
New Orleans has suffered devastating freezes that wipes out decades of tropical and subtropical growth that would never happen in Scilly. We must be realistic about the shortcoming of the continentality of North America. New Orleans went down to 11F in 1989 and they had devastating loss of citrus and vegetation.
Such a shame what happened, and would never happen in southern Europe or pretty much any other location at that latitude.
I have actually emailed with this guy numerous times about what grows in NOLA now and so forth.
Nice guy.
Experiencing just one night of 15 degrees in New Orleans with temperatures staying below freezing for a day or two would be far worse than numerous freezes in the mid-20s. The effect on tropicals in our landscapes would be disastrous, as I well know.
I began my horticultural career in 1980 when I was hired as an LSU AgCenter extension horticulturist in Orleans Parish. During the '80s, temperatures dipped down into the upper teens every few years in New Orleans. That chilly decade culminated in the catastrophic freeze of December 1989. Occurring just before Christmas that year, temperatures in New Orleans reached 11 degrees and stayed below freezing for three straight days.
In the midst of the freeze, I remember looking out a window at the snow and ice and actually shedding tears. I knew this freeze would destroy much of the unique beauty provided by our tropical plants, and it simply broke my heart.
And, indeed, the freezes were devastating to area landscapes. Golden rain trees (Koelreuteria bipinnata) and camphor trees (Cinnamomum camphora) were widely planted, and every single one was killed. I remember flying into New Orleans in June 1990 and seeing so many dead trees it almost looked like winter. Many people had to completely change their landscape plantings, as yards previously shaded by 30-year-old rain trees were drenched in sun.
To this day no one can explain what the fu.... happened in the 1980's that it was so cold. I remember, and it was brutal in the eastern US.
Yadda yadda yadda but you can't name a subtropical plant that grows in Scilly that won't grow in NOLA. There are century old CIDP in NOLA that have survived all of the freezes. NOLA can grow beautiful Mexican fan palm to 50 ft in 20 years while it takes Scilly a century to grow a half dead looking one. NOLA can grow beautiful queen palms for 30 years while Scilly can't grow a half dead looking one for five. NOLA can grow royal and foxtail palms for 10-15 years while Scilly has no hope at all. NOLA has big Bismarck palms from Madagascar while Scilly could never grow one in a million years. NOLA can grow fruiting mangos and other tropical fruits in a 5-10 year warm stretch, Scilly has zero chance. The list goes on and on and on
Looks like NOLA can grow actual tropical plants (from tropical climates and tropical areas, hence tropical) to reproductive maturity. Can't say the same for Scilly!
Must be the abysmal lack of tropical warmth
I'm not discounting the freezes but to compare NOLA with Scilly is silly
Tropical plants in Scilly? Where? I don't see any. The date palms are from the Canaries and the cordylines/cabbage plants are from New Zealand. You must not understand what tropical plants are if you mention Scilly and Miami in the same sentence. The distance between Scilly and Miami is like heaven and earth. Please keep in mind Miami is climatically tropical and warmer than several geographically tropical areas at sea level.
And no, places that get occasional freezes are leagues warmer than Scilly will ever be. If Miami is the sky, New Orleans is Mt. Everest. It's time to wake up from the oceanic delusion. Unless you are talking about average temperatures at freezing? It's unclear what you mean as Scilly and Vancouver do freeze.
There are sub-tropical gardens all over southern England and Western Britain. Doesn't make it 'sub-tropical' though rather its Oceanic with winter temperatures well above freezing. Anywhere that 'freezes' in the winter months cannot be considered sub-tropical, arguably by the very nature of Oceanic climates not freezing makes them CLOSER to sub-tropical climates? I say 'arguably' but there is no better judge than nature in my book and if something looks like a duck...............?
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