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New York City(recently) is not really full blown humid continental, it does not keep a consistent snowpack during it's winters. It does not hold a candle to "real" continental climates like Winnipeg. In fact a lot of the time it's temps look similar to a place like London, temps in the 30s and 40s in winter, like in it's 7 day forest right now.
It's a borderline climate like most of the mid Atlantic cities.
It's funny how no one complains about New York or Washington Dc's winters not being cold enough for a continental climate, it shows just how one sided the discussion is.
True statements here, but what I have always disliked about US eastern climates is the standard deviation. Yes most days in the 30's and 40's but them wham you get hit with two weeks(happened more regularly in the past) with just brutal level arctic cold with temps never going above freezing for days. Heck in the past quite a few winters I remember our air came direct from Siberia in winter.
New york city 'average' lows in December is 0 deg C, in January its -3 deg C! and in February its -2 deg C (and they're just the averages lord knows how cold the coldest nights are!), that is FAR too cold to be considered sub-tropical, New York cannot support the tropical flora that the Siclly's, SW England, Ireland, New Zealand and SW Europe can.
Here are the average 'lows' for the winter months for some of those places:-
Scilly Isles - DEC 8 deg C, JAN 7 deg C, FEB 7 deg C
Plymouth - 5 deg C, 4 deg C, 4 deg C
Cork - 5 deg C, 4 deg C, 4 deg C
Wellington - 7 deg C, 7 deg C, 7 deg C
Bordeaux - 3 deg C, 3 deg C, 3 deg C
None of these places are sub-tropical climates but they are much warmer than New York and that is why these places can grow tropical plants that New York cannot!
I don't think New York City is firmly subtropical either, Trewartha tried to come up with a name for it(oceanic) but that fails to account for it's muggy, hot summers and even if it did have milder summers it's winters are would still be borderline oceanic/continental.
I compared New York City to London just to trigger you mate, haha.
I know London can grow stuff like CIPDs and washingtonias(the hybrids mostly), New York can see much colder temps(usually during polar vortexes)than London which brings the averages down. That also ups it's hardiness zone.
Cherry picked examples again hahaha. Please visit Disney World, Universal Studios, Busch Gardens, etc and tell me it looks like Tresco
Not to mention Tresco is anything but the "average garden"
I agree that of course you can grow a very tropical garden in Florida. I have one. I have a house in Fort Lauderdale. I'm talking about the average home owners garden. The native vegetation (my brother did it on Sanibel) does not look lush and tropical. It looks subtropical yes, and more like Tresco than Fairchild put it that way.
In Fort Lauderale it is a lot easier to do a full tropical garden. This is mine:
I'm talking about the average home owners garden. The native vegetation (my brother did it on Sanibel) does not look lush and tropical. It looks subtropical yes, and more like Tresco than Fairchild put it that way.
I've driven the entire lower west coast from Clearwater to Naples and most of the east (Jacksonville-Melbourne and Palm Beach-Key West) and it looks nothing like Tresco LOL. I've also driven both the coastal and interior Panhandle and even that looks nothing like Tresco unsurprisingly with its summer heat and 50 inches of rain
I wasn't comparing the climate of NOLA to Scilly in terms of subtropicality or tropicality. I was stating the obvious and providing some context for what happens when the continentality comes down on us, that really doesn't impact other locations at those latitudes.
That is the shortcoming of subtropical climates in North America. Who the Fu.. wants their garden wiped out every third decade. Happened in South Texas this past winter, in fact, it has happened all over the US east of the Rockies.
It is a real bummer we have to go thru this every single winter wondering whether it will come down and destroy our gardens and crops.
And continentality leads to issues even without freezes of winter. It feeds the mid-latitude cyclonic set-ups responsible for severe thunderstorms, hail, tornadoes, etc like what occurred recently over Kentucky. Also responsible for heatwaves and/or droughts during summer.
I've driven the entire lower west coast from Clearwater to Naples and most of the east (Jacksonville-Melbourne and Palm Beach-Key West) and it looks nothing like Tresco LOL. I've also driven both the coastal and interior Panhandle and even that looks nothing like Tresco unsurprisingly with its summer heat and 50 inches of rain
I will slightly agree with Captain Falcon. The occasional cold during winter does introduce a "drying" phenomenon, even if winter lows are above freezing. Probably why many natural areas of the South feature pines, a species group more at home in drier and/or med climates (hence some "superficial" resemblance to Tresco seen with some gardens). Unlike areas of Japan and (southern) China loaded with laurophyll forests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_forest
But, on an overall basis, I indeed agree with you. The South itself is still an (overall) lush environment, looks nothing like the drier Med influences seen in subtropical Europe, and those botanical gardens of Scilly. The abundant swamps/spanish moss really aid in the lush look, not to mention cultivated species.
Probably why many natural areas of the South feature pines, a species group more at home in drier and/or med climates (hence some "superficial" resemblance to Tresco seen with some gardens). Unlike areas of Japan and (southern) China loaded with laurophyll forests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_forest
Yes we are loaded with pines here but from what I see in Augusta we are also loaded with prunus caroliniana, I cannot overstate this enough, it grows all over the place. Even areas that look deciduous from a distance has this plant growing thick underneath, it literally looks like a tropical jungle walking through it, it often grows along with naturalized both ligustrum lucidum and ligustrum sinense.
It has the shiny, drippy deep green look and soft leaves that characterize laurel forest trees, it's native range goes from Willington through Myrtle Beach, Columbia, Augusta, Macon, Columbus, Montgomery, Jackson, down to around Houston so it's range is extensive. Maybe not 100 percent laurel forest but aspects of one although not the diversity of species one finds in Asia.
Here it is straight from New York Botanical Garden:
"The hardiest banana is the Japanese fiber banana (Musa basjoo). These bananas have been proven hardy from Massachusetts and Connecticut down to Pennsylvania, for those of you living in northern climes. Without any winter protection this species is hardy to zone 6B , but if you live in a colder zone, heavy mulch or wrapping is required to keep it going. A fully grown plant can reach up to 14 feet tall."
You do have to protect it if you want "fruit" but why bother with famine food haha
I guess ... but bananas look so much better with fruit on them, but I guess in NYC they're more like an annual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asagi
Actually driving around a random neighborhood in Tampa is 1000x more tropical than Tresco. 10 actual tropical plants trumps all of the fake wannabes from the Mediterranean and New Zealand
Does that mean that deciduous trees are an attempt at fake wannabe Continental climates?
I just grow plants that suit the climate here- why not have a couple of passionfruit vines if they're going to give you a few hundred fruit a year.
Yes we are loaded with pines here but from what I see in Augusta we are also loaded with prunus caroliniana, I cannot overstate this enough, it grows all over the place. Even areas that look deciduous from a distance has this plant growing thick underneath, it literally looks like a tropical jungle walking through it, it often grows along with naturalized both ligustrum lucidum and ligustrum sinense.
It has the shiny, drippy deep green look and soft leaves that characterize laurel forest trees, it's native range goes from Willington through Myrtle Beach, Columbia, Augusta, Macon, Columbus, Montgomery, Jackson, down to around Houston so it's range is extensive. Maybe not 100 percent laurel forest but aspects of one although not the diversity of species one finds in Asia.
The laurel ("lush") elements are indeed present, that's why I included the second part of the post. I can't remember the specific highway, but there was an area of northern Florida around St. Augustine and Ocala I saw on streetview during winter — and it totally looked like one of those subtropical oceanic islands, even with the bare deciduous trees, because the place was chock full of sabal palmetto and other such species. Similar thing, albeit a far lesser extent, when looking at those winter-bare cypress swamps of Louisiana.
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