What is a subtropical climate? (droughts, tornadoes, snow, hot)
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Here it is straight from New York Botanical Garden:
"The hardiest banana is the Japanese fiber banana (Musa basjoo). These bananas have been proven hardy from Massachusetts and Connecticut down to Pennsylvania, for those of you living in northern climes. Without any winter protection this species is hardy to zone 6B , but if you live in a colder zone, heavy mulch or wrapping is required to keep it going. A fully grown plant can reach up to 14 feet tall."
New York City(recently) is not really full blown humid continental, it does not keep a consistent snowpack during it's winters. It does not hold a candle to "real" continental climates like Winnipeg. In fact a lot of the time it's temps look similar to a place like London, temps in the 30s and 40s in winter, like in it's 7 day forest right now.
It's a borderline climate like most of the mid Atlantic cities.
It's funny how no one complains about New York or Washington Dc's winters not being cold enough for a continental climate, it shows just how one sided the discussion is.
New york city 'average' lows in December is 0 deg C, in January its -3 deg C! and in February its -2 deg C (and they're just the averages lord knows how cold the coldest nights are!), that is FAR too cold to be considered sub-tropical, New York cannot support the tropical flora that the Siclly's, SW England, Ireland, New Zealand and SW Europe can.
Here are the average 'lows' for the winter months for some of those places:-
Scilly Isles - DEC 8 deg C, JAN 7 deg C, FEB 7 deg C
Plymouth - 5 deg C, 4 deg C, 4 deg C
Cork - 5 deg C, 4 deg C, 4 deg C
Wellington - 7 deg C, 7 deg C, 7 deg C
Bordeaux - 3 deg C, 3 deg C, 3 deg C
None of these places are sub-tropical climates but they are much warmer than New York and that is why these places can grow tropical plants that New York cannot!
Yadda yadda yadda but you can't name a subtropical plant that grows in Scilly that won't grow in NOLA. There are century old CIDP in NOLA that have survived all of the freezes. NOLA can grow beautiful Mexican fan palm to 50 ft in 20 years while it takes Scilly a century to grow a half dead looking one. NOLA can grow beautiful queen palms for 30 years while Scilly can't grow a half dead looking one for five. NOLA can grow royal and foxtail palms for 10-15 years while Scilly has no hope at all. NOLA has big Bismarck palms from Madagascar while Scilly could never grow one in a million years. NOLA can grow fruiting mangos and other tropical fruits in a 5-10 year warm stretch, Scilly has zero chance. The list goes on and on and on
Looks like NOLA can grow actual tropical plants (from tropical climates and tropical areas, hence tropical) to reproductive maturity. Can't say the same for Scilly!
Must be the abysmal lack of tropical warmth
I'm not discounting the freezes but to compare NOLA with Scilly is silly
I notice you ignored part of my post where I stated it never happens in southern Europe, Australia, Argentina, etc etc.
You know how much it costs to take down a dead tree, or the money spent when your whole garden is dead.
For NOLA, with those time ranges you gave, you may as well stick with sabal palmetto's, date palms, and some other very cold hardy subtropicals. 11F will come again, so what is the point.
Sydney AU, no worries ever in a million years about that kind of cold, nor Sicily or southern Spain etc etc. Heck, has anywhere at that latitude and sea level in China ever gone down to 11F in the last 50 years?
I notice you ignored part of my post where I stated it never happens in southern Europe, Australia, Argentina, etc etc.
You know how much it costs to take down a dead tree, or the money spent when your whole garden is dead.
For NOLA, with those time ranges you gave, you may as well stick with sabal palmetto's, date palms, and some other very cold hardy subtropicals. 11F will come again, so what is the point.
Sydney AU, no worries ever in a million years about that kind of cold, nor Sicily or southern Spain etc etc. Heck, has anywhere at that latitude and sea level in China ever gone down to 11F in the last 50 years?
You can argue made up arguments with yourself all you want. I acknowledged the cold outbreaks and made no mention of Sydney or China? My reply was based on the absurdity of comparing Scilly to NOLA and nothing beyond that
11F will come again maybe next year maybe in 30 years. Scilly will NEVER achieve a 25C summer mean temp, that's the point . NOLA can grow a fruiting mango tree with just 4-5 normal/mild winters while Scilly will NEVER achieve that. That is the point.
I'm not even sure what they are trying to 'argue over' anymore!
I'm not sure why they are jumping down my throat over New Orleans? I don't think I even mentioned New Orleans? Not that I can remember anyway? All rather confusing - Arguing for the sake of it I guess.
I wasn't comparing the climate of NOLA to Scilly in terms of subtropicality or tropicality. I was stating the obvious and providing some context for what happens when the continentality comes down on us, that really doesn't impact other locations at those latitudes.
That is the shortcoming of subtropical climates in North America. Who the Fu.. wants their garden wiped out every third decade. Happened in South Texas this past winter, in fact, it has happened all over the US east of the Rockies.
It is a real bummer we have to go thru this every single winter wondering whether it will come down and destroy our gardens and crops.
You can argue made up arguments with yourself all you want. I acknowledged the cold outbreaks and made no mention of Sydney or China? My reply was based on the absurdity of comparing Scilly to NOLA and nothing beyond that
11F will come again maybe next year maybe in 30 years. Scilly will NEVER achieve a 25C summer mean temp, that's the point . NOLA can grow a fruiting mango tree with just 4-5 normal/mild winters while Scilly will NEVER achieve that. That is the point.
Let us then finally acknowledge for once on this forum that we have probably the riskiest most winter flawed subtropical climates in the world given it can be wiped out any given winter. NO where else has this issue but North America. It sucks, but we are stuck with it due a lousy geographical set up that will never go away even with massive global warming. It is why we had the coldest weather during the Ice Age given our latitudes.
Actually driving around a random neighborhood in Tampa is 1000x more tropical than Tresco. 10 actual tropical plants trumps all of the fake wannabes from the Mediterranean and New Zealand
Let us then finally acknowledge for once on this forum that we have probably the riskiest most winter flawed subtropical climates in the world given it can be wiped out any given winter. NO where else has this issue but North America. It sucks, but we are stuck with it due a lousy geographical set up that will never go away even with massive global warming. It is why we had the coldest weather during the Ice Age given our latitudes.
Ok tom77 monologue of flawed us subtropical
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