that would be the best case scenario for literally 150 miles or more in any direction (even to the south) because of UHI. taking the average of the metro, it would be less than 230. more like ~210.
no, you were trying to compare Altanta's growing season to NYC which, given the far inland location and higher elevation, isn't a particularly fair fight. now if NYC's growing season was for some reason longer than say Charleston, SC then i would do a double take but of course that is not the case.
but yes NYC ended up being higher than i expected. though i suspect Boston might be surprisingly high as well because there appears to be a small chunk of USDA 7a in the city due to UHI. of course it wouldn't be as high as NYC but i'm thinking in the densest part of the city it may peak around 200.
by what logic?? 4 months count as tropical, 5 months count as arctic.
lol i wouldn't say much closer, NYC (40.72°) is only ~295 miles (1° * 69 miles, 4.28°) from the halfway point between the equator and the north pole (45°). what would be the closest equivalent koppen subarctic climate to the equator? probably Yakutsk (62°), ~1173 miles (17°) north of the halfway point between the equator and the north pole... much further from the halfway point than NYC.
we aren't talking about which climate suits your fancy, its about objectively finding the best definition using factual data we have. part of that is coming to the root of the issue, what exactly does "subtropical" mean? it seems koppen's "subtropical" overlaps a number of areas around the world that are not only far away geographically from real tropical climates but also climatically share little in common with true tropical climates for the majority of the year. in other words, as an annual average they are not tropical. where the corresponding "subarctic" does not have this problem. all koppen subarctic climates are, as an annual average, arctic. this is fact. whether or not it has enough significance is debatable, but it is all factual. and anything that isn't factual will be corrected.
of course there won't be any conclusion when there are people giving up saying "entitled opinions" because they ran out of facts to talk about... the whole purpose of a debate is to exchange facts and reach a conclusion or compromise.
NYC, Philly, and DC are considered humid subtropical only by koppen...
Trewartha's definition makes all of them Temperate Continental...
if you want, you could say they are all borderline but you can't say one definition is firmly subtropical unless the other definition is considered firmly temperate continental.
and from the looks of it, NYC is held more firmly as Temperate Continental (2.3°F away from subtropical) under Trewartha's definition than it is held subtropical under koppen (0.7°F away from continental). i'm being silly now but even if you take the average of both definitions, NYC is continental.
i was just wondering about 235 in particular because i could not find that value... ahh, its on wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geogra...k_City#Climate
though i imagine 235 would not be accurate as an average for the entire metro, especially going by this map:
hey going by that chart it is, well 183-203 and probably leaning closer to 203, maybe 195ish...
and looks like even a few parts of Long Island drop below 183.
and idk, looks like Manhattan falls under the 183-203 threshold, not sure whats up with that.
thats fine, but i can't imagine a scheme that makes more sense and also keeps NYC as subtropical...
kind of scary when you say a place at 51.5°N is more subtropical than a place that barely qualifies as subtropical under koppen and is located at 40.7°N...
also i would like to note, the method for calculating the growing season in the UK (daily highs less than 5°C for 5 days i think) is different from the US (first freeze) so it would be interesting to see how London's growing season measures up to NYC when using the US method. of course using one for the other won't make much sense given the anemic nature of the UK's climate.
because of the map above...
no they don't, because different parts of the city have a different building density and distance from the water.
though 235 might be a fair average, it would be for one of the warmer areas of the city, the average for the entire 5 boroughs is probably under 235.
no, it doesn't. Cincinnati is Humid Continental according to koppen (30.85°F on a 32°F threshold, 1.15°F under). technically Cincinnati is more Humid Continental than NYC is subtropical (32.6°F on a 32°F threshold, 0.6°F above) so yea my statement made sense... and that would be one of the warmest places in Ohio. i actually had Columbus in mind, which still has a slightly higher January record high than NYC.
i'm still not sure what you are getting at. are you saying there are no broadleaf evergreens native to the US South that aren't native to DC or NYC? ...because there are plenty (such as the Live Oak, hugging USDA 8b closely)
it would help to know why you believe something is the case...
no your point was that all of these broadleaf evergreens are also native to DC and NYC, turns out 2 of the 3 you mentioned weren't even evergreen... as for weather patterns, idk seems like NYC would be somewhere in between Virginia Beach and Chicago, leaning toward Virginia Beach mostly because it is after all geographically closer... (~325 miles vs ~750 miles)
yea my jaw dropped when i first saw the native range of the Red Maple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_rubrum
its plants like this having massive ranges that make it difficult to classify the climate of regions such as the eastern US from a vegetation standpoint alone. because taking all of the plants into consideration, its a blur...
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