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La Vegas is vastly hotter day and night in summer than NYC, regardless of humidity. You will sweat to your ass in LV more for ****s sake. 110f is 110f and is a whole new world of heat than 90f, regardless of dewpoint FFS /thread
What they claimed would require analysis well past that of any spread sheet queen. Being one I am well aware of its limitations. So the meat of what they actually did would be buried in the spread sheet...without the spreadsheet it is simply opinion. And out of date and probably not very good opinion.
No, the data that you saw on the page was the exact data that was on the spreadsheet. The heat index was then calculated from the entered values according to an equation. It isn't really out-of-date if it was posted in 2013.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Actually your posts demonstrate you have no ideal how this works. The cases given are very favorable to Houston. Face it you simply do not understand how this works. And I even went to the trouble of explaining how you would really do it if you want a reasonably accurate answer. But this post indicates you did not understand that either.
Your posts demonstrate that you are drawing false conclusion, due to inaccurate reading of my posts.
In that particular section of your post, you posted, again, just a temp averaged with a dewpoint for heat index, and I've explained why that falls into the same error as before: the scenario's don't occur at the same time. No wonder you got that nonsense 120F heat index for Houston in an earlier post (which has never happened before).
Afterwards, you said it yourself the only true way to gain an accurate uncomfort measurement: an average of values over summer months over the years of heat index (hour-by-hour for specifics, or just the max heat index for general).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
Indeed one month is not definitive. But it is directive and it is one of the three critical months.
Not just one month for one year. More accurate would be that month over many years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
The heat index in Houston is above 100 part of virtually every day most of the summer. Again your post indicates you simply do not understand how this works. Dew points above 70 are terrible basically and Houston has them all summer long. Moisture you can cut. Locally we think it is terrible when the dew point gets above 25 or so.
And when did I say that the heat index wasn't above 100F? I understand how it works just fine. You apparently don't know how to read, though.
So like I said, while Las Vegas's dry heat can produce lower heat index than the actual temperature, temperatures are already so hot in the first place, that whatever heat index value is produced will still be higher than what is seen with Houston, even if that city never went below 70F in dew-point. And then you still have the radiance of the sun, not included in calculation of heat index, that can make conditions feel even hotter (more of a problem for a desert like Vegas than a humid coastal city like Houston).
Low-latitude, lowland desert cities like Phoenix or Las Vegas are just too boiling hot, dry, and sunny for their "dry heat" benefit to even be worth it, honestly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
And if your really wanted to know an hour by hour analysis of the data over 5 or 6 years would probably give you a reasonable view. Be my guest. Not terribly hard...the hour by hour data exists.
No, the data that you saw on the page was the exact data that was on the spreadsheet. The heat index was then calculated from the entered values according to an equation. It isn't really out-of-date if it was posted in 2013.
Your posts demonstrate that you are drawing false conclusion, due to inaccurate reading of my posts.
In that particular section of your post, you posted, again, just a temp averaged with a dewpoint for heat index, and I've explained why that falls into the same error as before: the scenario's don't occur at the same time. No wonder you got that nonsense 120F heat index for Houston in an earlier post (which has never happened before).
Afterwards, you said it yourself the only true way to gain an accurate uncomfort measurement: an average of values over summer months over the years of heat index (hour-by-hour for specifics, or just the max heat index for general).
Not just one month for one year. More accurate would be that month over many years.
And when did I say that the heat index wasn't above 100F? I understand how it works just fine. You apparently don't know how to read, though.
So like I said, while Las Vegas's dry heat can produce lower heat index than the actual temperature, temperatures are already so hot in the first place, that whatever heat index value is produced will still be higher than what is seen with Houston, even if that city never went below 70F in dew-point. And then you still have the radiance of the sun, not included in calculation of heat index, that can make conditions feel even hotter (more of a problem for a desert like Vegas than a humid coastal city like Houston).
Low-latitude, lowland desert cities like Phoenix or Las Vegas are just too boiling hot, dry, and sunny for their "dry heat" benefit to even be worth it, honestly.
I know, it's already on Weather Underground.
The important thing is how they did the calculation. That would be clear on the spreadsheet. Off hand there is no way to do it on a spreadsheet except a massive one with the hour by hour readings for five years or so. They do not appear to have done this. In Houston by the way the drop in the dew point temperature at the day max is virtually always very small.. You would lose little accuracy in using the ave max temp and the ave dew point. All that mostly driven by relatively small temperature swings during the day.
And Las Vegas is not lowland. It is between 2,000 and 3,000 feet. Not Denver but not Phoenix and certainly not Houston.
The question of all this comes up often. Gets particularly snarky in conversations comparing Phoenix, Tucson and Las Vegas. Might be fun to do the calculation. I would consider it if I could find the data in the right format. May well be buried in the Weather Underground site or the NWS.
I am reasonable sure though you will lose on Houston and Dallas having looked at the data a good bit and having lived a couple of year part time in Dallas.
The important thing is how they did the calculation. That would be clear on the spreadsheet. Off hand there is no way to do it on a spreadsheet except a massive one with the hour by hour readings for five years or so. They do not appear to have done this. In Houston by the way the drop in the dew point temperature at the day max is virtually always very small.. You would lose little accuracy in using the ave max temp and the ave dew point. All that mostly driven by relatively small temperature swings during the day.
Yes, it would be better if the spreadsheet was there. But, at the end of the day, the calculations were there, and the desert cities have the highest heat indices, bar none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
And Las Vegas is not lowland. It is between 2,000 and 3,000 feet. Not Denver but not Phoenix and certainly not Houston.
I say "lowland" in terms of the elevation range of Las Vegas (2,000-3000 isn't as high as some other areas out West), as well as relation to the surrounding land (Las Vegas is in a valley).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch
The question of all this comes up often. Gets particularly snarky in conversations comparing Phoenix, Tucson and Las Vegas. Might be fun to do the calculation. I would consider it if I could find the data in the right format. May well be buried in the Weather Underground site or the NWS.
I am reasonable sure though you will lose on Houston and Dallas having looked at the data a good bit and having lived a couple of year part time in Dallas.
Well, you said it yourself, the averages of heat indices between the areas probably will end up close (I say the desert cities end up slightly hotter, you say the opposite). But then the desert cites are more exposed to sun, and less exposed to Gulf winds than the two Texas cities; so that constitutes two more factors of uncomfort in the desert cities, none of which are accounted for in heat index.
Yes, it would be better if the spreadsheet was there. But, at the end of the day, the calculations were there, and the desert cities have the highest heat indices, bar none.
I say "lowland" in terms of the elevation range of Las Vegas (2,000-3000 isn't as high as some other areas out West), as well as relation to the surrounding land (Las Vegas is in a valley).
Well, you said it yourself, the averages of heat indices between the areas probably will end up close (I say the desert cities end up slightly hotter, you say the opposite). But then the desert cites are more exposed to sun, and less exposed to Gulf winds than the two Texas cities; so that constitutes two more factors of uncomfort in the desert cities, none of which are accounted for in heat index.
I will say you are pretty good at picking the wrong factors to discuss.
Average and Summer average winds are significantly higher in Las Vegas than in Houston. More than 33% in the summer time.
Houston is also further south given a hotter sun angle. Cloudier perhaps but sun burn would in fact be worse.
Added edit...
I recovered the Sperling spread sheet. No information...the calculations are all removed.
I did however find out that the thing cited is the "Sperling Heat Index" not the standard one and involves max averages, min averages, dewpoint averages all obtained from NOAA 30 year data. That all of course says they are meaningless in any discussion... particularly with 30 years of data 20 years of which is irrelevant. And that is even presuming he did something rational which is not known.
NYC summers are not hot. Not even very warm. Just warm and occassionally hot at times.
Other warm summers
Philly
Chicago
Minneapolis
Boston
Very warm summers
DC/Baltimore
St Louis
Kansas City
Hot summers
Atlanta
Charlette
Miami
Nashville
Very hot
Vegas
Phoenix
Dallas
Houston
I have to disagree with you. If I can sweat by simply standing outside it's more than just "warm".
And the summers in places like D.C. and STL aren't really different from the summers in Atlanta and Charlotte.
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