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You don't understand the words 'proof' or 'proven'. Just saying that something is arbitrary doesn't make it so. And it's nice that even in this answer, you hedge your bets by saying that this person would be bound to defend the methods of their study. Nice. Debating points with you is a worthless use of time. I'm on your side. Morgantown has 7 billion people. The entire world resides within the 10^2 miles of Morgantown WV. I don't know how we've all overlooked this for so long.
See, another fallacy. Now you are making up things I never said to try and dispel my point. That argument of making things up is your point. Your logic if some bureaucrat says something it must be true. Pizza is a vegetable, Iraq has WMDs, a black person is 3/5s of a person, etc.
My point has been proven per Tbailey. Come back when you have something.
it's not an exact science for sure but the base formula for determining the area is by using a defined urban core then determining the influence the core has on a geographic region based on socio-economic ties to it. The areas aren't drawn by any other desire other than to reflect the overriding influence a core metropolitan area has over a geographic area. If the core is declining in metrics, it very well may still hold influence over an area. If over time say Huntington were to exponentially grow into a much larger metro area and influence Charleston, then that MSA would shift that way.. Just as is the case with Jefferson, Berkeley and Morgan counties- some people were outraged that they weren't all lumped into some grand 'Eastern Panhandle' MSA, however looking at the real trends of where people work, shop and play certainly tells the truth. In that instance I feel feel the boundaries were spot on accurate. As for Morgantown having influence over Clarksburg? I didn't see it when I lived in Clarksburg/B'Port. I rarely went to Morgantown and only went if it was for work. Same for Fairmont. We generally stayed within the Bridgeport/Clarksburg area. I don't know many people that commuted to Morgantown either, however I am certainly not an expert on the commuting numbers. I don't know boo about Fairmont, but I would assume the influence is much greater.
I would imagine over time Fairmont will be absorbed by Morgantown's MSA, and possibly Clarksburg as well.
Oddly enough it is the Office of Management and Budget that determines the boundaries, not the census.
And no- I certainly didn't think you were slighting Montana. Not many folks know the cities here anyway. But the MSA's are fairly spot on here, and yes- driven in large part by direct influence a city has on the geographic region. Funny thing is that in a lot of cases people in Helena will make several large trips a year to either Boise, Spokane or sometimes Billings to do a load of clothes and goods shopping due to the greater variety. Yet if you were to ask the same people where they do their shopping they would say "Oh, Helena."
I'm not sure how long ago you lived in Bridgeport, but a whole lot has happened in this region in the past decade. I live in Morgantown. Of my 13 immediate neighbors, 2 of them work in Clarksburg (for the FBI) and one works in Fairmont (for NASA). One of my neighbors is a contractor, and he has 2 carpenters working for him from Fairmont. I'm retired, and tend to stick to Morgantown, but I am in Clarksburg at least once per month for medical treatment. There are many people working for WVU and the affiliated hospitals from Clarksburg and Fairmont, as well as from Uniontown, PA. This area is an interconnected as any and growing more so every day.
I understand what you're saying, and there is some validity to it, but there is also validity to the major imperfections in the system, and it is largely unreliable. What really matters is the direction an area is taking. If it is growing and prosperous, it is a desirable location. If it is stagnant or in decline, that indicates long term problems. We are fortunate here to be in the growth category, and if you were to visit here you would see that at every turn in the road.
Charleston isn't 'given' anything. The MSA boundaries take into account the surrounding areas that commute to or have socio/economic ties to it, and that number is large. It is shrinking, yes, but still large. And larger than what Morgantown currently has.
Same thing with the EP- Jefferson county residents surveyed tend to commute to and have ties to the Greater DC metropolitan area. Berkeley to Hagerstown and Morgan County to Winchester. Berkeley county could wind up shifting someday depending on the economic fortunes of Hagerstown vs. Winchester. I would imagine that sometime farther out the entire 81 corridor from Hagerstown to Winchester could be a designated MSA, or at least a micro-msa.
The people taking these surveys don't lie. It simply is what it is.
I think folks tend to tie something more sinister into the methods these designations use than what they really are. They really have nothing to do with political boundaries. That's district remapping and of course gerrymandering takes a front and center stand in WV, lol.
Again this has already been addressed. Did you read this thread from the beginning. There is nothing around Charleston, except Huntington so it captures a HUGE rural area into its MSA. If we were to split Charleston into 4 different cities not only would Charleston, city limits shrink, but the MSA would plummet since these 4 areas now would compete for the MSA area. The number of people actually in an area would remain the same. That wouldnt change. You can create or merge as many artificial made up designations as you want, but the actual number of people cannot be made up.
Also the MSA system is stupid. If there is a town of 100 people 51 go to Charleston and 49 go to Huntington for work the whole area is given to Charleston.
Like I said MSA is just some stupid artificial nonsense, it has no bearing on the real population.
In WV Morgantown has the most people in a given area. I am not explaining this again since I already explained this several times in this thread alone. NOBODY has disputed my argument. NOBODY has said, 'hey, if you take the exact same land area this area would have more people than Morgantown." No, instead what people are saying, "Regardless of the fact that Morgantown has more people than any other area of WV they arent officially counted in the census." Your point is not wrong, they arent, but my point isnt wrong either it has more people regardless of what made up designation they are organized in.
Huntington and Morgantown have virtual the same population density after this estimate (using land area). Morgantown has about 10 more people per square mile now.
Yes, Morgantown is bigger. Also, many students arent taken into account for Morgantown, but the same could be said of Huntington. However, WVU is much bigger than Marshall and has more students not from the area while Marshall attracts a higher % of local residents who commute to it or already live in the area. So while the population density is too low for both areas I would say the effects on Morgantown are much greater. So the ACTUAL population density of Morgantown is probably at the very LEAST a few hundred people more than Huntington per square mile, maybe more than a 1000.
Where Morgantown really starts to dwarf Huntington is the area outside of the city. Huntington has one town in Ohio, Ashland, and then sorta combines with Charleston. A few hundred thousand people over a large land area. Not bad, but not good. In that same Charleston-Huntington area Morgantown meets with Clarksburg and Pittsburgh for a few million people. Even bigger is the Clarksburg-Martinsburg metro area. Those towns themselves are MUCH smaller than Morgantown and Huntington but they are part of the DC metro area.
The truth, as anyone can see (since threads never get deleted) is that this one was taken off topic shortly after the first post. There is a lot that I don't see (This message is hidden because cry_havoc is on your ignore list.), but the context makes it clear what really happened. If it weren't for the negative impact on people coming to this forum looking for moving/relocation information, it would be funny.
There is absolutely no reason that WV should handle these issues any differently from any other state.
The truth, as anyone can see (since threads never get deleted) is that this one was taken off topic shortly after the first post. There is a lot that I don't see (This message is hidden because cry_havoc is on your ignore list.), but the context makes it clear what really happened. If it weren't for the negative impact on people coming to this forum looking for moving/relocation information, it would be funny.
There is absolutely no reason that WV should handle these issues any differently from any other state.
Again another fallacy.
Who said WV should handle the issue from different states? I never did. Again people resort to fallacies because they are wrong.
The number of people living in an area doesnt change based off state lines, and it is stupid to argue it does. I could create some artificial designation where NYC only has 5 people, but that wont change the fact that millions of people actually live there.
Also, I do not see how this is off topic at all. The thread was about Morgantown population estimates. My point was completely related and relevant to that topic. Now if we were discussing deer hunting or the origins of pepperoni rolls it would be off-topic. In fact this thread has remained on topic the whole time, which is strange for this forum.
Perhaps you should listen to what people have to say and not ignore them because they present facts you dont like.
Perhaps you should make relevant points instead of making offtopic personal attacks against users.
Wheeling and Weirton are losing population because all of the jobs are in SWPA or Columbus, OH.... and since they are both so close people can move there and still be close to family. WV doesn't try to bring any jobs to the northern panhandle all they do is use the area for the Marcellus and casino money.
I agree with this, but this holds up for most of the state, except for one small area in the south central part of the state that the politicians do care about. Outside of that any development is pretty much a handout to private organizations or wealthy individuals who bankroll the politicians in Charleston.
My point has been proven per Tbailey. Come back when you have something.
I've asked you before, please quit lying and using my name as if I supported your outlandish claims. I actually proved you wrong as did the link I posted but in your twisted little world, you can apparently never be wrong. Even when the facts are no where near on your side, you claim to be right.
Anyone else find it funny that those who continually claim the numbers don't matter and accuse others of having a Napoleon complex, are the ones who argue the actual and accepted number the most and claim they are bigger than they actually are? Who has the Napoleon Complex on this board? I think it's pretty clear to everyone else.
I've asked you before, please quit lying and using my name as if I supported your outlandish claims. I actually proved you wrong as did the link I posted but in your twisted little world, you can apparently never be wrong. Even when the facts are no where near on your side, you claim to be right.
Anyone else find it funny that those who continually claim the numbers don't matter and accuse others of having a Napoleon complex, are the ones who argue the actual and accepted number the most and claim they are bigger than they actually are? Who has the Napoleon Complex on this board? I think it's pretty clear to everyone else.
I will not stop because that is what you did. I realize it was not your intention but your link showed that the census was made up with no consistent criteria or logic behind it. You actually proved me right, and proved ALL your arguments about the census wrong. It is now my official source on how bad the census is, and I am merely citing it and the person who presented it. In fact I liked the source you provided. Take this as a compliment. It is now a source I will always use when talking about the census.
Resorting to personal attacks wont change that.
BTW, I never accused anyone of having a Napoleon complex. Im not sure how a Napoleon complex would even come into play here.
*EDIT* If the issue is that you dont want credit for the source ill stop telling people it was you that cited it first. Im a big believer in giving credit where credit is due, but if you dont want the credit just tell me and I want name you. HOWEVER, I am still going to use the source as it proves my point.
Last edited by cry_havoc; 05-30-2013 at 03:56 PM..
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