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normal good school grads, or flagship state school grads. Sure, for profit school grads and some satellite state school grads, or community school grads are having issues. That makes sense that they have relatively high unemployment, but those that go to a Texas, or Lehigh, University of North Carolina, Carlton, Boston University, etc and get a simple B+ average, some internships, work at networking, and have a decent major are by and large doing OK.
You've got an awful lot of qualifiers there.
What you're really saying is, the "best" students. I was one of those people.
Getting jobs has at least as much to do with luck. The job I have now had little to do with my qualifications and more to do with the people liking me. Also, veterans preferences got pushed harder when the news of how bad their unemployment was started to get some media play. Tax incentives started to make them more attractive candidates. I know for a fact that was a factor for me, since the policy is all veterans with proper paperwork and meeting minimum qualifications have to be interviewed over the phone at least. Essentially an affirmative action policy which has been in place 4 or 5 years. Odds are, without that advantage, I would not have even had the chance to impress anyone over the phone.
Most of my competitors for my current job were similarly qualified.
I've been on the other side of some hiring decisions since being brought in, and when you get 80 applicants for one position, the qualifications all start to blend together. It gets to the point where arbitrary factors come into play and you look for excuses to whittle the field.
What you're really saying is, the "best" students. I was one of those people.
Getting jobs has at least as much to do with luck. The job I have now had little to do with my qualifications and more to do with the people liking me. Also, veterans preferences got pushed harder when the news of how bad their unemployment was started to get some media play. Tax incentives started to make them more attractive candidates. I know for a fact that was a factor for me, since the policy is all veterans with proper paperwork and meeting minimum qualifications have to be interviewed over the phone at least. Essentially an affirmative action policy which has been in place 4 or 5 years. Odds are, without that advantage, I would not have even had the chance to impress anyone over the phone.
Most of my competitors for my current job were similarly qualified.
I've been on the other side of some hiring decisions since being brought in, and when you get 80 applicants for one position, the qualifications all start to blend together. It gets to the point where arbitrary factors come into play and you look for excuses to whittle the field.
The "entry level jobs" or "junior level jobs" in fields are few and far between. And then you get a ton of applicants when there is one. So, the employer can find any little thing to disqualify someone, even though most everyone that would qualify on a basic level could do the job - i.e. You have a degree related to the job, a solid GPA (3.0+ out of 4), possible internships, etc.
In terms of GDP, we've been out of the recession since late 2009/ early 2010. In terms of the stock market, since 2011.
In terms of jobs for regular people, this is the worst jobs climate since the Great Depression. We haven't even come close to recovering the jobs lost in 2008, and we're even further back if you adjust for population growth. The economy needs to be adding 200K jobs per month *minimum* to recover appropriately, and we've had very few months like that in the last 13 years. The 1981-83 recession was bad, but if you had a college degree it didn't hit you as hard. Blue collar folks with manufacturing jobs were hit the hardest then.
Using only one metric as the GDP or stock markets is really disingenuous. Even using the U3 number has holes. The only reason that number is going down is the actual workforce isn't growing and it counts people who are underemployed. I would also look at the U6 numbers as well as labor force participation and the mean/median (as well as the standard deviations) of salary.
I read we're still down a million jobs since 2008, and that doesn't include the jobs needed for population growth.
I would argue that the reason people who have a college degree are more desirable, so they tend to be chosen more for jobs and promotions. The job could still be crappy and not a good use of their skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Today, a college degree doesn't mean all that much, so young people are kinda screwed. They can save the money and debt and forego the college degree - but then their job prospects are limited. Or, they can get a college degree and after several years, maybe get a decent job, but they've got so much debt that their net take home comes out to about the same.
This is one of the reasons why I think the college loan is a bubble that will burst at some point.
College tuitions have risen a lot faster than inflation in the last 30 years or so. Part of the reason is that government backs/provides grants/etc. to students without any capping of loans or cost controls.
Maybe if we didn't have the government dumping unlimited amounts of cheap (low interest) money into the system, colleges would have to compete on price, academics, job placement services.
It will eventually burst because if most graduates can't find a job, or a well paying one at that, how can they pay back the loans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I'll qualify that. Now that I've a decent job for a couple years, it's not as bad, and now I am one of those people who has some relevant experience. However, I certainly saw myself further along at age 31 than I am.
The societal propaganda machine told us that by one's 30s, you could expect to have that 2nd or 3rd promotion and be able to put the kids into private pre-school. The reality, at least for me, is 5-7 years behind schedule and I'll never catch up.
Don't worry about getting 2-3 promotions or sending your kids to private school. It is the classic case of if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?
I think people feel the pressure to do these things and that's why we have sucky managers or people living from pay check to pay check because they have to have the newest toy.
Some people are cut out to be managers and others aren't. This isn't a bad thing.
Hmm... it's been a few weeks since the last "young people s*ck" thread on this forum. Glad to see we're back on schedule.
Quite frankly, she was honest with you. She'd rather be hiking or doing something of meaning with her life vs. sitting in an office, toiling away for somebody else, and putting up with heaven only knows what form of office politics go on in the place.
Nobody's "dream job" is to sit in a cubicle from 8 to 5 working with a bunch of random people for a paycheck. And that doesn't even factor in the stress, layoffs, office politics, and other BS. It's also possible she doesn't have a "dream job" because she knows darn well that employees are disposable these days, so there's no point in being attached to a job. Young people aren't stupid - they are keenly aware of what's been going on in the economy lately.
Long story short, if she can do the job, I'd keep her. She's at least being honest with you vs. giving you some BS story about how coming to work every day to work for this company specifically is all she's ever wanted to do.
^ This
Plus entry-level is the female dog work of any profession. I guess the bigger point is what is wrong with older workers that they actually are too afraid to speak their minds. I never liked corporate work environment. Took getting laid off to push me into doing something I like better where I'm not in an office/cube most of the day.
Plus entry-level is the female dog work of any profession. I guess the bigger point is what is wrong with older workers that they actually are too afraid to speak their minds. I never liked corporate work environment. Took getting laid off to push me into doing something I like better where I'm not in an office/cube most of the day.
I think the issue is that kids always have question the way things are an parents always think that kids are complainers and this is something that goes back ears, the complaints just change slightly.
I think the issue is that kids always have question the way things are an parents always think that kids are complainers and this is something that goes back ears, the complaints just change slightly.
That's what I said earlier. Boomers in our time were, if anything, even more outspoken about it than Millennials.
This is one of the reasons why I think the college loan is a bubble that will burst at some point.
I think there'll be a bailout. Some kind of forgiveness for people with loan amounts over a certain amount.
After Obama got in, they started fudging the payback options and keeping the interest relatively low. For example, I'm on the extended graduated plan, which means for the first 10 years I only pay about $140 a month on a $30K loan where the payments go up about 15% every 5 years for 25 years. They also made Income based payment plans more attractive, although in all cases you end up paying the government back a hefty sum if you don't speed up repayment. A bailout could probably fudge the interest somehow so the government would still get its money back over time, but maybe not profit all that much from interest. There's also a plan in the works to engage a 10 year forgiveness program for anyone in any kind of public service employment with loans.
Depending on the college, a lot are too big to fail. Many colleges are the largest employer and economic engine of their communities.
When I was living in Texas, the governor proposed a budget that literally closed down four of the state's community colleges due to budgetary pressure. The debate in the legislature featured speeches offering an impassioned defense of education the likes of which I had never heard before. The people who gave those speeches were the republican representatives and senators from those 4 districts. Needless to say, the colleges are still open today.
If the parties can agree on anything, it'll be NOT to shut down institutions that employ hundreds or thousands of people in their communities and churn billions in economic activity in those regions. (ie: the University of North Carolina's operating budget is over $3 billion). They'll figure out a way to bail them out.
The schools that may have trouble are for-profits and the non-elite, but still expensive, private universities that won't be worth bailing out.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
You've got an awful lot of qualifiers there.
What you're really saying is, the "best" students. I was one of those people.
Getting jobs has at least as much to do with luck. The job I have now had little to do with my qualifications and more to do with the people liking me. Also, veterans preferences got pushed harder when the news of how bad their unemployment was started to get some media play. Tax incentives started to make them more attractive candidates. I know for a fact that was a factor for me, since the policy is all veterans with proper paperwork and meeting minimum qualifications have to be interviewed over the phone at least. Essentially an affirmative action policy which has been in place 4 or 5 years. Odds are, without that advantage, I would not have even had the chance to impress anyone over the phone.
Most of my competitors for my current job were similarly qualified.
I've been on the other side of some hiring decisions since being brought in, and when you get 80 applicants for one position, the qualifications all start to blend together. It gets to the point where arbitrary factors come into play and you look for excuses to whittle the field.
No, I'm not saying the best students. Not sure where you come from, but the "best" students didn't go to second or third tier schools. They went to Ivys, Stanford, Bates/Bowdoin/Colby, the Seven Sisters, Duke, Vanderbilt, UC Berkeley, etc. I went to third/fourth tier schools and did fine, flagship B10 Universities, and decent other public schools, Bucknell, Lehigh, Colgate, etc.). Run of the mill B+ students with decent SAT and GRE scores, nothing special.
I was a third tier student, and went were the aid was best. No Ivies for me, and the next tier down didn't offer the aid like the third tiers did.
The reality, at least for me, is 5-7 years behind schedule and I'll never catch up.
Not with that attitude you won't.
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