Attitude of people in their 20's (hired, lawyer, good, eligible)

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Well, don't get hamburger patties that week. Simple. I don't need them every week. I generally don't get beef as they're more expensive and I can get chicken or turkey for less, usually. But not on sale? Ok, I'm eating something else that is. (Which is why the Chain CPI makes a ton of sense).

Fair enough. The only problem I see is with the decreased supply, increase in demand for beef (including burger patties) that can lead to increases in say pork, chicken and turkey just because of people choosing less expensive substitutes while their supply cannot ramp up to keep up with

Originally Posted by timberline742

Oh, sure you can. You don't use the seasoning packs where the sodium is. I get lo mein though or rice and mix in mixed frozen veggies or something like that. Not as convenient but a big bag of wheat or egg lo mein can be had for $2-3, enough for a week of dinners. Again, you don't have to be like that all the time, but a week of brown rice with veggies isn't really a burden if nothing you want is on sale.

Case in point of me saying, you can do a lot with ramen. I guess I should have qualified that the seasonings are the key sodium in it. The problem lies that you read the label, it doesn't say nutritional value without packets. I checked one while out food shopping today.

Originally Posted by griffon652

I never dismissed anyone's post. in fact I read them all word for word. When I was responding to panderson I even used his own numbers to give my examples just to show that I paid attention to what he wrote. I will try to say what I said differently, maybe then you will see what I was trying to say.

That is what I would get from many of your posts on the topic. The issue is (as Panderson mentioned) $1,600 in NYC goes quicker than say $1,600 in Little Rock.

Originally Posted by griffon652

I'm not stating WHAT qualification is required to get a job that pays $1600. All I'm saying is WHOEVER gets a job that pays $1,600 and is single can live off that if they get a roommate ALMOST EVERYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY. That's it, I wasn't saying anything more.

The issue is the type of person who can typically get the $1,600 a month would be a college graduate (with a bachelor's) and about 71% of seniors graduating in 08-12 had some type of student loan to pay off. Project on Student Debt: State by State Data So in theory anyone could (if it is waved for someone who has a perfect fit otherwise and they need the position filled a week ago.) In actuality, results may vary and only allow the bachelor's wielding applicants to get the job.

Originally Posted by griffon652

That's why I haven't responded to your counters regarding education because they were irrelevant to the point I was making. By the way your arguments regarding the education factors WERE valid. It just had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I hope you can see what I meant by my post now. By the way I apologize if the tone of my previous post to you was harsh, that was not my intention.

Apology accepted. I still believe the education is valid because a large majority of entry level jobs "require" a college education and how stingy hr and hiring managers are. As a matter of fact, this is the case with letter openers and letter sealers at Randstand. Last I heard, they also pay $12.00 an hour for those positions so a little less than that $13.33 for 30 hours of work to make $400 a month to live in apartment (alone.)

Originally Posted by panderson1988

I know the season packets have sodium, but the dried noodles themselves is just as bad. I was actually thinking of making fresh made ramen, as in make my own broth and so forth as I live next to Mitsuwa, which I think Boston area has a location. Now Mitsuwa is amazing Japanese grocery store with stuff imported from Japan and Korea; however, looking up packages for ramen and it's like 1 serving of noodles was still 50% of daily sodium. It depressed me as I thought the prepackage stuff was the problem, but it seem the noodles themselves are bad. Unless you have the proper equipment to make your own fresh noodles at home, but the noodles themselves in the store was a lot.

Far East countries like China and Japan (unsure of Korea and Thailand) have lots of sodium in there food for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by panderson1988

Also Griffin lets agree to disagree as the numbers we are throwing out are very simplified and fixed, when in reality life doesn't have fixed costs. Cost of energy is skyrocketing right now for midwest and east coast people as winter is still ongoing. Seriously, it's April is next week and I'm still getting snow! It was 60 degrees this time last year for me. Obviously grocery costs are going up, especially for perishable goods like meats. Even bologna has gone up for me by 50 cents which sucks as that is my go to cheap tasty deli meat.

Fixed costs are like the basic cell phone plans now, you really have to TRY to use up talk minutes these days (compare with say data which is easy to if you listen to streaming music services all day.)

Yeah, cold cuts are going up. Thanks a lot beef prices (as shown earlier.) Now do they Wonderbur bologna by you? That is a VERY good tasting and cheaper priced bologna. My entire family loves it and t makes nice sandwiches (and even a few quick bites.)

Originally Posted by panderson1988

Roommates do make things easier, that is very true. The downside to roommates is the annoying habits you have to deal with, and sometimes they are unreliable paying their share of the rent and costs. That has happen to my friends which I mentioned earlier.

Trust me, I just mentioned a handful of comments. Some didn't even come to mind at first.

Originally Posted by panderson1988

I'm sorry for being harsh on you, but you do talk smugly and down on some people by saying nobody can do math. I hate smug people who think they are better and generalize how everyone/generation is besides you. You were able to get by and had reasonable costs, for others the cost is worse. Especially with insurance costs as it varies where you live, how much your employer pays, then the co-pays and deductibles in your plans.

Insurance does vary. Look at the way Obamacare works. In the cities there are more plans to chose from so prices are lower due to the competition. Meanwhile you go out to a rural area in the same state, there is less and there for higher prices. I think for example New York City has as many as 20 healthcare competitors compared to rural places like Morris, Oneonta or Cooperstown in Ostego County who may only have 2 competitors.

Originally Posted by timberline742

I have electric heat and my bill is still high. Ugh. Cut down on my going out budget!

Horrid winter.

Yeah but at least with the weather you wouldn't want to go outside other than your exact needs so it forced you to not head to bars or eat at fast food. I know that unless I needed to walk around in the snow, I wouldn't dare to.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Fair enough. The only problem I see is with the decreased supply, increase in demand for beef (including burger patties) that can lead to increases in say pork, chicken and turkey just because of people choosing less expensive substitutes while their supply cannot ramp up to keep up with


Yeah but at least with the weather you wouldn't want to go outside other than your exact needs so it forced you to not head to bars or eat at fast food. I know that unless I needed to walk around in the snow, I wouldn't dare to.

Well, maybe we'd eat less meat, that could only help our health as well. There is certainly no shortage of meat overall in the markets, or in our diets.

And I'm outside almost all day every weekend during the winter. Skiing and snow shoeing are so much fun!

Though I'm not worried about fast food, don't touch the stuff other than ER sustenance while on a road trip a couple of times a year. Makes me feel like crud and always screws up my stomach. TMI I'm sure.

[mdovell]

Just to kinda note

If you want something cheaper than the dollar shave club try getting a safety razor. Yes it will cost you a bit but it more than pays for itself in the cheapness of the blades.
Learn How to Shave Like Your Grandpa | The Art of Manliness
$1 a blade! try 25 cents..heck maybe even 10 cents
100 Blades Derby Extra Super Stainless Double Edge Razor Blades | eBay
$10..100 blades. This can last me nearly two years! I also use coconut oil instead of aftershave. $7 can last months..maybe try peraso. The mark up on mainstream products is sky high.

In terms of cell phones one should look for GSM phones. GSM's are unlocked and generally more. However the monthly costs are much less.
List of United States mobile virtual network operators - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Generally there's four or so major providers but they license out their networks to other operators and do different forms of marketing. Some donate funds to various groups others are just voice etc.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Just to kinda note

If you want something cheaper than the dollar shave club try getting a safety razor. Yes it will cost you a bit but it more than pays for itself in the cheapness of the blades.
Learn How to Shave Like Your Grandpa | The Art of Manliness
$1 a blade! try 25 cents..heck maybe even 10 cents
100 Blades Derby Extra Super Stainless Double Edge Razor Blades | eBay
$10..100 blades. This can last me nearly two years! I also use coconut oil instead of aftershave. $7 can last months..maybe try peraso. The mark up on mainstream products is sky high.

Oh I believe it. The Lysol/Glade sprays are 4.88 compared to $2.77 for the un-branded Walmart kind. Does the same trick too.
As for the debry blades I have a good number of Gillette Fusion blades left (going to sharpen on denim though) but once I'm out on the Fusion blades I may try those instead (and maybe hold onto it for travel.) In fact, you can find an Old Fashioned Safety Razor on eBay with 11 blades

Originally Posted by mdovell

In terms of cell phones one should look for GSM phones. GSM's are unlocked and generally more. However the monthly costs are much less.
List of United States mobile virtual network operators - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Generally there's four or so major providers but they license out their networks to other operators and do different forms of marketing. Some donate funds to various groups others are just voice etc.

Verizon is fairly fickle when it comes to lending out their network. The only GSM phone through Verizon's network is TracPhone which is JUST talk and maybe extra for data and text. The reason I mention this is because Verizon has the best service where I live. The others who offer networks to more GSM phones do not work as well. I've even heard of people returning phones to their provider because they couldn't get service out where I live.

[griffon652]

Originally Posted by panderson1988

Also Griffin lets agree to disagree as the numbers we are throwing out are very simplified and fixed, when in reality life doesn't have fixed costs. Cost of energy is skyrocketing right now for midwest and east coast people as winter is still ongoing. Seriously, it's April is next week and I'm still getting snow! It was 60 degrees this time last year for me. Obviously grocery costs are going up, especially for perishable goods like meats. Even bologna has gone up for me by 50 cents which sucks as that is my go to cheap tasty deli meat.

Roommates do make things easier, that is very true. The downside to roommates is the annoying habits you have to deal with, and sometimes they are unreliable paying their share of the rent and costs. That has happen to my friends which I mentioned earlier.

I'm sorry for being harsh on you, but you do talk smugly and down on some people by saying nobody can do math. I hate smug people who think they are better and generalize how everyone/generation is besides you. You were able to get by and had reasonable costs, for others the cost is worse. Especially with insurance costs as it varies where you live, how much your employer pays, then the co-pays and deductibles in your plans.

I'm sorrier for my tone in my post, it was not necessary. You were much more cordial in your posts then I and I overstepped with my wording. I want to explain to you why my posts were worded so strongly. Maybe you still won't agree with my points but you may see why I said what I said. I mostly post on the economics and personal finances forums. The reason for this is because many of the issues those thread contain can be answered by pure mathematics. So its not that I'm being smug its just that mathematically what I'm saying is something I have verified so therefore I very sure of what I post. After all math doesn't lie.

If you look at my posts in philosophy, work and employment, religion etc. you will notice that my posts are very objective and neutral. Because those categories don't deal with math. I know you still won't agree but honestly, its almost a fact that you can live on $1600 a month as a single individual in this day and age in ALMOST any part of the country as long as you have a roommate. I'm not saying you won't have to cut back on entertainment because you do. But we all have to make sacrifices to get ahead. Let me give you two real life examples:

My father supported a family of FOUR (yes four!!) on today's equivalent of $1,700/month take home. This was in a normal cost of living area. The only freebie we had was free health insurance. He paid for EVERYTHING else and still saved money yearly. It can be done, but you have to change your views on how to live.

The other example I want to give is in regards to mathematics. I have mastered using mathematics so well that in combination with a few other habits I can tell my personal future. And no I don't mean future as in "when I'm going to die" or "what will happen to me when I go on vacation in a month." I'm referring to MAJOR financial achievements in my life.

This is what I do: using mathematics I try to estimate the worst financial scenario I will have X years down the line. I combine this with self discipline, research, self awareness, self education to come to a conclusion on when I will be able to achieve certain financial landmarks.

Here's part of how that worked in real life for me. At 22 I used my salary information, my expense information, my personal habits and worst case future earnings potential to come up with what age I would need to save until to afford the type of house that I want. When I determined that age, I calculated my future expense at that age when I'm a homeowner. I researched future mortgage payments, upkeep for the type of house I want, HOA fees, furniture purchases etc. so I knew my total expenses as a homeowner.

Next, I used that estimation to estimate how much I could save yearly as my future self. I then used this to research what kind of potential investments I could make using the capital I would have saved. And so on and so on. You want to know the amazing part? Using this method I have been able to be 100% accurate regarding my future!

Sure I had unexpected expenses, events etc. come up. But in estimating my worst case scenarios for the future I even set aside money for unexpected expenses. So up to today I have achieved EXACTLY what I thought I would achieve at a certain age or achieved better then what I wanted to achieve. I almost literally control my future! Right now I have the next 20 years of my life planned out.

Before I was 20, I was among the poorest people in America. Now in my late 20's I'm already among the top 10% of Americans using my method. And I have had no "lucky" breaks in life. In fact, I have had a lot of bad luck. But I still overcame. And almost all my success can be attributed to the method I wrote above. My WORST case future scenario is this: I will retire in my late 40's with a net worth of a few million and never work again in my life.

That's the power of math. And I hope that now you understand why I speak so passionately about it. At the end of the day you may completely disagree with what I wrote and you have the right to do that. But if you do decide to try to understand the concept I have laid out and you choose to practice it; I GUARANTEE you that you will achieve beyond what you ever thought possible. And yes that's even if someone earns only $1,600 a month presently!

[griffon652]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Apology accepted. I still believe the education is valid because a large majority of entry level jobs "require" a college education and how stingy hr and hiring managers are. As a matter of fact, this is the case with letter openers and letter sealers at Randstand. Last I heard, they also pay $12.00 an hour for those positions so a little less than that $13.33 for 30 hours of work to make $400 a month to live in apartment (alone.)

What you wrote above is exactly why I didn't want to get into a discussion regarding educational requirements in relation to positions available for an individual. It is another huge topic that is not relevant to my point. Simply put if you make $1,600 take home, you can live on your own as long as you have a roommate in almost all areas of the country. You will have to make sacrifices, I never argued with that point.

Also don't forget I was a proponent of staying at home with the parents if someone made $1,600. So I have been on your side on that issue! I was simply stating that its completely possible to live on your own on that pay.

[panderson1988]

Originally Posted by griffon652

I'm sorrier for my tone in my post, it was not necessary. You were much more cordial in your posts then I and I overstepped with my wording. I want to explain to you why my posts were worded so strongly. Maybe you still won't agree with my points but you may see why I said what I said. I mostly post on the economics and personal finances forums. The reason for this is because many of the issues those thread contain can be answered by pure mathematics. So its not that I'm being smug its just that mathematically what I'm saying is something I have verified so therefore I very sure of what I post. After all math doesn't lie.

If you look at my posts in philosophy, work and employment, religion etc. you will notice that my posts are very objective and neutral. Because those categories don't deal with math. I know you still won't agree but honestly, its almost a fact that you can live on $1600 a month as a single individual in this day and age in ALMOST any part of the country as long as you have a roommate. I'm not saying you won't have to cut back on entertainment because you do. But we all have to make sacrifices to get ahead. Let me give you two real life examples:

My father supported a family of FOUR (yes four!!) on today's equivalent of $1,700/month take home. This was in a normal cost of living area. The only freebie we had was free health insurance. He paid for EVERYTHING else and still saved money yearly. It can be done, but you have to change your views on how to live.

The other example I want to give is in regards to mathematics. I have mastered using mathematics so well that in combination with a few other habits I can tell my personal future. And no I don't mean future as in "when I'm going to die" or "what will happen to me when I go on vacation in a month." I'm referring to MAJOR financial achievements in my life.

This is what I do: using mathematics I try to estimate the worst financial scenario I will have X years down the line. I combine this with self discipline, research, self awareness, self education to come to a conclusion on when I will be able to achieve certain financial landmarks.

Here's part of how that worked in real life for me. At 22 I used my salary information, my expense information, my personal habits and worst case future earnings potential to come up with what age I would need to save until to afford the type of house that I want. When I determined that age, I calculated my future expense at that age when I'm a homeowner. I researched future mortgage payments, upkeep for the type of house I want, HOA fees, furniture purchases etc. so I knew my total expenses as a homeowner.

Next, I used that estimation to estimate how much I could save yearly as my future self. I then used this to research what kind of potential investments I could make using the capital I would have saved. And so on and so on. You want to know the amazing part? Using this method I have been able to be 100% accurate regarding my future!

Sure I had unexpected expenses, events etc. come up. But in estimating my worst case scenarios for the future I even set aside money for unexpected expenses. So up to today I have achieved EXACTLY what I thought I would achieve at a certain age or achieved better then what I wanted to achieve. I almost literally control my future! Right now I have the next 20 years of my life planned out.

Before I was 20, I was among the poorest people in America. Now in my late 20's I'm already among the top 10% of Americans using my method. And I have had no "lucky" breaks in life. In fact, I have had a lot of bad luck. But I still overcame. And almost all my success can be attributed to the method I wrote above. My WORST case future scenario is this: I will retire in my late 40's with a net worth of a few million and never work again in my life.

That's the power of math. And I hope that now you understand why I speak so passionately about it. At the end of the day you may completely disagree with what I wrote and you have the right to do that. But if you do decide to try to understand the concept I have laid out and you choose to practice it; I GUARANTEE you that you will achieve beyond what you ever thought possible. And yes that's even if someone earns only $1,600 a month presently!

And I applaud how you worked your way up, but I like to point out that it's harder now then it was when you entered the workforce 10 years ago. I'm assuming you are closer to 20 since you mention you are in your late 20s. I know people say you should get an internship, and in my sophomore year in college in 2008 I was about to be interview for several internships until the market crash, then most of those programs were cut for the next year or two. So I got some experience in other ways with local companies, but the HR babble with countless personality tests and interviews took me almost a year form when I graduated to get a first full time job, and then I was let go shortly after.

Then my second job I did quit as it was a tough place to be in. Mostly because it was a dying industry, collectibles by mail, and they rule by fear which lead to high turnover, and they can't figure it out. Now I'm in a new job which I'm really enjoying and being happy, but it's hard to get by in the city of Chicago with the nickel and dime mentality the state has with increasing taxes, village stickers for your car, daily parking fees, train pass, and now groceries going up.

That is my point, and I'm mostly responsible. Yes I got out once a while, or spend money on something like a video game once a while. I'm not like some 20 year olds who party all day and waste money, which have been around for decades. The boomers and Gen X did the same thing, and the only difference is economic times were better for them which is the point I made. Our salaries and wages are stagnant, but costs are up. Obviously we can't live on lobster everyday, but now it's getting harder and harder to afford ground beef. Even cheap stuff like bologna is going up, then add in how energy is going up due to a harsh winter and the issues in Europe.

That is my point is if you are responsible you can get by, but it's getting harder and harder with current conditions. Especially in a big city as, well, democrats say you should be pay more for services, but then they cut services as they have pension plans and debts. Look at IL, and then you see fiscal irresponsibility by boomers since most IL politicians are dinosaurs. With my career choice it's more common in the cities.

And I'll be honest I get some help from my dad, one my phone is on a family plan which is cheaper that way, and B my insurance due to rates being high. Am I lucky, yes, and I consider that. Otherwise whatever money I have I don't spend it fruitlessly. I don't go out to bars and so forth as it's not my thing, and the fact for a couple of glasses of whiskey in a bar you can buy a fifth and be good for a few weeks

[griffon652]

Originally Posted by panderson1988

That is my point, and I'm mostly responsible. Yes I got out once a while, or spend money on something like a video game once a while. I'm not like some 20 year olds who party all day and waste money, which have been around for decades. The boomers and Gen X did the same thing, and the only difference is economic times were better for them which is the point I made. Our salaries and wages are stagnant, but costs are up. Obviously we can't live on lobster everyday, but now it's getting harder and harder to afford ground beef. Even cheap stuff like bologna is going up, then add in how energy is going up due to a harsh winter and the issues in Europe.

That is my point is if you are responsible you can get by, but it's getting harder and harder with current conditions. Especially in a big city as, well, democrats say you should be pay more for services, but then they cut services as they have pension plans and debts. Look at IL, and then you see fiscal irresponsibility by boomers since most IL politicians are dinosaurs. With my career choice it's more common in the cities.

I'm sure you are indeed responsible. My post had a more to do with the concept of more sacrifice = more reward. I got into the workforce in late 05. I knew my most important goal in life was to retire early with a relatively large nest egg. So I focused everything on that goal. I was willing to go so far that I didn't even have a cell phone until 04 just to save money! I lived like a person in poverty even though I was making a killing, just so I could save money for investments.

My point is this, there are still ways for you to get ahead to where you want (though I agree with you that the economy is much tougher). But you will have to make major sacrifices. However, exactly where you want to get in life is totally dependent on your goals and the amount of effort you exert.

Just using myself as an example, back in 05' if I didn't get the job I wanted, I would've joined the military even though that would have made me extremely miserable. I would have taken the MOS of AH64 Apache pilot or aircraft mechanic. I would have gone through 4 years of hell but at the end of that I would have a guaranteed high paying job. I'm not saying YOU should go join the military. Just that I would have HATED to be in the military but was willing to make the sacrifice to get ahead.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by griffon652

Just using myself as an example, back in 05' if I didn't get the job I wanted, I would've joined the military even though that would have made me extremely miserable. I would have taken the MOS of AH64 Apache pilot or aircraft mechanic. I would have gone through 4 years of hell but at the end of that I would have a guaranteed high paying job. I'm not saying YOU should go join the military. Just that I would have HATED to be in the military but was willing to make the sacrifice to get ahead.

Sorry, but being an Army warrant officer is not a real sacrifice for a single man (and not that much of one for a married man).

You might have thought it was a sacrifice, but there are a lot of people who'd love it and who do love it. If you had become an Apache pilot and then had the nerve to go on the military forum to complain how miserable you were, you'd have been run off the board.

My point is that you consider a sacrifice what many others think is a blessing, yet you belittle what others think is a sacrifice. If you have the right to thiink being an Apache pilot is a sacrifice, then others have a right to consider what they think are sacrifices to be sacrifices.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

Sorry, but being an Army warrant officer is not a real sacrifice for a single man (and not that much of one for a married man).

You might have thought it was a sacrifice, but there are a lot of people who'd love it and who do love it. If you had become an Apache pilot and then had the nerve to go on the military forum to complain how miserable you were, you'd have been run off the board.

My point is that you consider a sacrifice what many others think is a blessing, yet you belittle what others think is a sacrifice. If you have the right to thiink being an Apache pilot is a sacrifice, then others have a right to consider what they think are sacrifices to be sacrifices.

I am sure if someone in the military had that attitude, they would be chewed out alive. Gomer Pile's treatment in Full Metal Jacket would be a cakewalk compared to that.