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Nonsense. This is not true for all bachelors degrees. Sure, if you get a bachelors degree from a diploma mill like Penn State University, that pumps out thousands of uneducated graduates every year, sure. However, bachelors degree from a decent university program will take you much farther than a HS diploma.
Baloney. There is no such thing as someone with a degree that is "uneducated". Earning that degree CERTIFIES that the recipient was provided and passed a corriculum of over 120 hours of college level study. You cannot just pick and choose the easiest courses an qualify for a degree. There are core subjects that EVERYONE must pass that ensures you were actually educated and not just attended.
Why do you feel there aren't any "diploma mills" in New Jersey? I'm going to have to disagree with you there. There are many schools across the nation that are diploma mills.
Take a look at the grant proposals that are awarded from the NSF and alike. Penn State is hardly anywhere near the top.
I'm very familiar with Penn State, btw. I didn't attend but I have taught there, peer reviewed papers there, and evaluated the university for regional accreditation.
Harvard can also be classified as a "diploma mill". How many students actually fail out of Harvard? Do you think some well-connected family is going to allow the school to NOT give them a degree after they forked out over $100K in tuition? They are paying for the diploma and not the education.
Harvard can also be classified as a "diploma mill". How many students actually fail out of Harvard? Do you think some well-connected family is going to allow the school to NOT give them a degree after they forked out over $100K in tuition? They are paying for the diploma and not the education.
I'm guessing you've never actually interacted with current Harvard undergraduates. This idea that the school is filled with dumb trust fund kids is just a dumb cliche. Harvard can and does pick the very best students from across the country and has enough money that it can do so without worrying if they can afford to attend. And while it's not the toughest or most soul-crushing educational experience in the US, the kids are definitely not just twiddling their thumbs.
That being said, they are definitely paying for the diploma (those that are paying, financial aid at Harvard is top notch). I'm sure a bright, motivated student could get a similar education at any top-tier public research university (e.g. Cal).
"Good paying" and "white collar job" are not compatible.
Fortunately, you've got options.
Get a white collar job that pays "Meh" and be happy with the fact that you're paid for the low value, low stress, low commitment labor. OR
Push yourself to learn a trade that is high paying, and understand and accept that it will challenge you to do more, and take pride that you really did earn your paycheck.
Interesting. Are you implying blue collar skilled trades pay more than white collar jobs? All of my friends are in the trades and while they make good money they have been in the workforce for about 10 years longer than me and in their profession for about 5-6 years longer than me and I still make more than them even when they are working insane overtime.
White collar jobs can and often do pay well if you have have a skillset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrandom
I'm guessing you've never actually interacted with current Harvard undergraduates. This idea that the school is filled with dumb trust fund kids is just a dumb cliche. Harvard can and does pick the very best students from across the country and has enough money that it can do so without worrying if they can afford to attend. And while it's not the toughest or most soul-crushing educational experience in the US, the kids are definitely not just twiddling their thumbs.
That being said, they are definitely paying for the diploma (those that are paying, financial aid at Harvard is top notch). I'm sure a bright, motivated student could get a similar education at any top-tier public research university (e.g. Cal).
Places like Harvard aren't affordable for the middle class. Those that have parents that make under 50-60k/yr pay almost nothing to go to Harvard, but if your parents make 100-150k/yr you get almost no breaks. It would still cost you about 40kish a year to attend Harvard if you are smart kid from the middle class. Kids with rich parents just don't care about footing a 50-60k/yr bill for a Harvard education, but a middle class family with 3 college aged kids can't afford to pay more than 10-20k tops.
So yes Harvard does have top notch financial aid, but it goes to a kids with low income earning parents. I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with that, but to say everyone who gets into Harvard gets a substantial Fin Aid package isn't really accurate.
sure there are trust fund kids in Harvard, but only a minority. The students tend to be of the best and the brightest, not just from the US but there is a substantial amount of foreign prodigies who go there. But that's what college was and still should be for, the best and the brightest. No time and money wasted on remedial subjects that one should have aced in freshman year in high school.
The main reason why people get useless degrees is because the curriculum is easy and basically a joke. The fact of the matter is that not everyone has the intellectual capability and commitment to get a degree in engineering, accounting, or computer science.
According to you, what is a "useless" degree anyway?
My ex-husband has both undergraduate and graduate degrees in chemistry; undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering; and is currently finishing up his MBA. He travels around the world for his job and in fact just returned from 10 days in China.
What does he CONSISTENTLY say he SHOULD HAVE included in his studies in college and that he desperately wishes he hadn't dismissed as "useless"? Languages. Among other humanities disciplines.
He also says that when sitting at large business dinners consisting of delegates from various countries, he notices very quickly that business people from across and Europe and Asia can converse widely on subjects like literature, history, world politics, art and music in ways that put the North Americans to shame. And of course, they do so weaving in an out of multiple languages.
Working with people around the world has made him realize that in this ever-increasing globalized economy, the fact that he isn't fluent in at least one other language puts him at a distinct disadvantage.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 09-18-2014 at 10:41 AM..
sure there are trust fund kids in Harvard, but only a minority. The students tend to be of the best and the brightest, not just from the US but there is a substantial amount of foreign prodigies who go there. But that's what college was and still should be for, the best and the brightest. No time and money wasted on remedial subjects that one should have aced in freshman year in high school.
Um...you do know that HBS didn't even mandate ethics classes until the mid to late 1990's...right
There are TWO Harvard grades. One that is on the transcript and then the real one that comes out only for the students.
If you attend private school you are basically buying your grades. Now keep this in mind in public schools and universities the unions are there and generally raise wages for professors. Private schools might not really do that to the point where they have to create other incentives by which to get people to work there. There's a member of the Boston area news media who I overheard talking at a public event that he worked at a university ONLY because they gave his daughter free tuition. It had nothing to do with the wages or the students or integrity/reputation of the place.
So think about this from the professor side. You see a group of students on day one and half of them are your coworkers children. Do you honestly think you aren't going to give them all an A ?
Here's another thing to consider. There are two things that determine attendance in higher ed. Grades and tuition/fees. In a economic downturn you want to maximize attendance. If a private school cannot raise prices what is the recourse? Lowering the standards. Simple game theory. Does it debase the brand? Probably but since it has been around for hundreds of years frankly few would care.
This infallibility principle certainly has more holes in it than swiss cheese. In all due respect I have had professors that also teach at other universities including Ivy league. The content of the classes does not change as their contracts do not force them to dumb down any content. I have also taken a bit of some online classes where a professor provided specific instructions on what is comparable in work to what his students do in Stanford. Where I went for my masters has assignments that are 100% the same.
As for that MBA textbook that's all well and good but frankly that is a formula. That is not really intimidating since much of that is put into electronic formats. Once you define what the variables mean and the amounts that is not that hard since few would do that out by hand. The idea of new formulas for the heck of it frankly makes little sense. When you know excel and to a point access you can make those out in a much easier way. In government I know of complicated formulas but generally they come from down upon high and do not change and if they do then it is explained specifically why.
Seeing a lot of flawed, one-sided arguments on both sides here.
The point is, it's really based on the individual. Smarts can only go so far. We live in an ever-changing world with different demands and priorities. For now, engineering is a ''safe bet''. Sure, you'll make some money. But if you're not passionate about it you probably won't go far. Also, safe bet assumes that nothing drastic happens in the marketplace. An aerospace engineer is all fine and dandy until the government decides to cut funding to NASA and the military. Not only that, many industries are on a wavelength cycle where ups and downs are common. Think of it this way, Walmart was doing better when the economy sucked. Now that the economy is on an upward slope, Walmart is going down.
The best thing, I believe is being the best leader you can be where you can easily adapt to different situations. In 20 years, half the companies that exist to day won't be the same companies you know now. Remember AOL? A good captain of a ship isn't just someone who can get from point a to point b the fastest. But a captain knows how to navigate the difficult journeys.
I'm guessing you've never actually interacted with current Harvard undergraduates. This idea that the school is filled with dumb trust fund kids is just a dumb cliche. Harvard can and does pick the very best students from across the country and has enough money that it can do so without worrying if they can afford to attend. And while it's not the toughest or most soul-crushing educational experience in the US, the kids are definitely not just twiddling their thumbs.
That being said, they are definitely paying for the diploma (those that are paying, financial aid at Harvard is top notch). I'm sure a bright, motivated student could get a similar education at any top-tier public research university (e.g. Cal).
This isn't really true. In fact, a lot of the applied engineering fields at Harvard aren't even good. For example, if I wanted to study aerospace engineering, I would actually rather go to a school like Virginia Tech or Michigan or Texax A & M. Harvard is Harvard because it's Harvard. But the reality is it only has a distinct advantage in a select number of academic disciplines (Medicine, Business, Natural Sciences).
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