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Most of the state boards did away with the 20 year experience requirement to get your PE license, now everyone must have a degree. I have noticed that people will say things like this until a truly hard problem comes up where the guy that did it all by "experience" comes up short. There is theory you learn in school that is difficult to duplicate in the field (unless your working at R&D facility or the like). Also how the heck does said guy even start in engineering without the degree when people WITH degrees cant get the jobs, must have started when the field was not saturated.
Co-ops and internships are just as cut throat to get as the actual jobs themselves post graduation, they are cut throat to get exactly because of the OP's initial statement, STEM fields are saturated.
I am doing decently now as an engineer but I was not able to get any internships and I was unemployed for a year after graduation. I am doing way better now but it was a significant gamble and I only took it because I hate working with people (mc donalds, grocery stores, etc). People look down on people working those jobs with contempt and I knew I was better than that. Who wants snooty people looking down their noses at you every day while you are being paid marginal wages and have to get welfare to subsidize your income to survive.
When the market is saturated employers start getting overly picky and the competition becomes cut throat, that's what most people try to avoid. A little healthy competition is ok but 100 kids for every position unhealthy.
We need another major war to thin out the herd, starting with CEO's kids on the front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352
It worked for me... And my colleagues and former classmates...
It's not just the degree: What did these people do extra during their studies? Did they intern? Do co-op work? Participate in research programs? Specialize in anything? (Biology is a VERY broad field.) Network?
A degree is just a piece of paper that says you can pass a test. Why would one expect to magically obtain a great job just because they went to school for 4 years in a field that's deemed "good" and "in-demand?"
You don't have to have an engineering degree to be an "engineer." Some of the best ones I see learned engineering through years of work in the trade, be it through tech work, repair and testing, or others. Some of the crappiest engineers I see have degrees but have only ever worked at a Cracker Barrel and didn't do anything significant during their studies other than pass exams.
Most of the state boards did away with the 20 year experience requirement to get your PE license, now everyone must have a degree. I have noticed that people will say things like this until a truly hard problem comes up where the guy that did it all by "experience" comes up short. There is theory you learn in school that is difficult to duplicate in the field (unless your working at R&D facility or the like). Also how the heck does said guy even start in engineering without the degree when people WITH degrees cant get the jobs, must have started when the field was not saturated.
Co-ops and internships are just as cut throat to get as the actual jobs themselves post graduation, they are cut throat to get exactly because of the OP's initial statement, STEM fields are saturated.
I am doing decently now as an engineer but I was not able to get any internships and I was unemployed for a year after graduation. I am doing way better now but it was a significant gamble and I only took it because I hate working with people (mc donalds, grocery stores, etc). People look down on people working those jobs with contempt and I knew I was better than that. Who wants snooty people looking down their noses at you every day while you are being paid marginal wages and have to get welfare to subsidize your income to survive.
When the market is saturated employers start getting overly picky and the competition becomes cut throat, that's what most people try to avoid. A little healthy competition is ok but 100 kids for every position unhealthy.
We need another major war to thin out the herd, starting with CEO's kids on the front.
I agree with your statement. Competition is cut throat for almost any white collar job especially if you don't have a lot of experience.
Accountants are competing with a 100 other accounting grads for a full time accountant position.
Even nursing has become cut throat. The average GPA for someone accepted into the nursing program at my school was 3.8. If you have that credential you might as well apply to pharmacy or medical school. Not to mention when these nursing grads hit the job market they are fighting tooth and nail for a full time nursing position.
I even know mechanical and civil engineering grads from Georgia Tech that had a difficult time find jobs after they graduated.
It seems that every job out there is a permatemp job or on contract with no benefits and below market pay for what the position should be paying.
It's sure is a jungle out there. I am glad you eventually found a job in your field and you didn't give up. I was determined myself to get out of my dead end temp job so I moved 596 miles from my hometown for a full time chemist position since the job market for chemists in Atlanta is so saturated that young chemistry graduates don't even have a chance for anything outside sub $20 per hour temp jobs.
I had the same experience though I graduated with a MS and extensive laboratory research experience and still was unemployed for 8 months followed by 3 of the worst years of my life working as a permatemp. I spent my 30th birthday setting my two diplomas on fire in the backyard grill. I would never want anyone in my family to have that experience ever again which is why I will be the last person to ever major in science.
I also had to move 800 miles from home to the middle of nowhere for my first job and got laid off 9 months later and had to move back.
But what is the alternative, pilots, accountants, mechanics, heck even doctors, are all saturated.
I have been trying to figure out what is NOT saturated right now. I wonder if building weapons in Russia is big right now?
That is better than getting laid off 3 years later after you buy a house and get married.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80
I had the same experience though I graduated with a MS and extensive laboratory research experience and still was unemployed for 8 months followed by 3 of the worst years of my life working as a permatemp. I would never want anyone in my family to have that experience ever again which is why I will be the last person to ever major in science.
I also had to move 800 miles from home to the middle of nowhere for my first job and got laid off 9 months later and had to move back.
But what is the alternative, pilots, accountants, mechanics, heck even doctors, are all saturated.
I have been trying to figure out what is NOT saturated right now.
Some thing that requires direct client/patient contact is not saturated. Clinical psychologist esp. one treating the mentally ill, clinical pharmacists, primary care doctors in rural areas, nurses specializing in infectious diseases/viruses, epidemiologists working in ground zero.
The acronym STEM refers to a very broad range of degrees and career fields. I will agree that a chemistry or a biology degree will most likely lead to working as a lab technician for $20/hr ($15/hr to start). A degree in chemical engineering, petroleum engineering or math can lead to a potentially very lucrative career, particularly since you only need a bachelors. Lawyers don't make much more then these professions and they have to pay for and sit through law school.
Most of the state boards did away with the 20 year experience requirement to get your PE license, now everyone must have a degree.
It's 4 years of experience, plus a BS in your field from an ABET accredited university, plus a passing score on the FE exam. I don't know about other disciplines but for Civils you can take the CA PE after three years of experience, but you also have to take and pass an extra section that evaluates your seismic knowledge.
It has been rough out there for all of us. I don't know what branch you're in but Civil Engineering has been really bad for the past 6 years. When I graduated back in 05' they were billing me, an E.I.T. out at $90/hr and PE's out at $120/hr. Now they are billing registered PE's out at $80/hr.
I have been layed off several times so I feel your pain. I just cant imagine what it must have be like to graduate after 07'. To bust a$$ through a very difficult program only to not be able to find work in your field. I don't think most people realize what we go through in college and how hard we have to work. If I had to do it over again I would have done Petroleum Engineering or Computer Science. At least they are aptly compensated and have no trouble finding a job.
Got a bachelor's in microbiology and got a job doing quality control in a pharmaceutical company where all I did was mix and pour media on plate and swab with the sample, did that for a year for $18K salary so I quit and went into a non-science field where I now make 5 times as much. Majoring in science is not going to teach critical thinking skills and is not going to get a good job.
I had the same experience though I graduated with a MS and extensive laboratory research experience and still was unemployed for 8 months followed by 3 of the worst years of my life working as a permatemp. I spent my 30th birthday setting my two diplomas on fire in the backyard grill. I would never want anyone in my family to have that experience ever again which is why I will be the last person to ever major in science.
I also had to move 800 miles from home to the middle of nowhere for my first job and got laid off 9 months later and had to move back.
You are a lot my courageous than me MSchemist. If I had to spend 3 years in a lousy permatemp Job I would of been gave up on the chemistry profession.
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