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I guess I was thinking of primary cities. East St. Louis is a much smaller secondary city in its metro much like Camden, NJ. It's not that unusual to have relatively small and neglected areas of a metro area that are terrible in a variety of ways. Detroit is different. It's the primary city in its metro area and its decline, as far as American cities are concerned, is unparalleled.
Although Detroit, East St. Louis, and Camden deserve most credit indeed, places like Baltimore, Gary, Newark, New Orleans, Flint, Saginaw, Atlanta, or Oakland also deserve to be mentioned. Even cities with a better reputation like Chicago, Dallas, Las Vegas, or Austin have horrible neighborhoods. They are not even that disappointing, I would consider urban decay and ghettoization at least somewhat interesting.
I would have to say Seattle. Been there many times, there's just something underwhelming about the place. I enjoy Vancouver a couple hours north far more, it's a shame the border guards are such pr*cks these days.
I love Seattle but I can see why it wouldn't impress some that much.
Balboa Park and the Cabrillo Monument were really cool, but I found the rest of the city to be a bit 'meh'. Seemed like a great place to live if you have a bit of money (La Jolla etc) but I found a few smaller metros to be more interesting (Pittsburgh, San Antonio, Austin).
I repped the OP and thank him for excluding Detroit. Whether or not it's underrated is a bit beside the point. I can't figure out how anybody can possibly be disappointed after a visit to Detroit -- you know it's supposed to suck, your impressions have nowhere to go but up.
Now you make me interested to see Detroit. Good job with this post. I agree with you about San Diego and I live here.
Although Detroit, East St. Louis, and Camden deserve most credit indeed, places like Baltimore, Gary, Newark, New Orleans, Flint, Saginaw, Atlanta, or Oakland also deserve to be mentioned. Even cities with a better reputation like Chicago, Dallas, Las Vegas, or Austin have horrible neighborhoods. They are not even that disappointing, I would consider urban decay and ghettoization at least somewhat interesting.
The bolded cities are not even close to being in the same category as Detroit. What you're talking about is high crime. There's a difference between a city that has a ton of crime and a city that has a ton of crime and is also economically depressed. We are talking about a city whose population has declined from a peak of 1.85 million in 1950 to 681,000 in 2013.
Just look at how non-Hispanic Whites are faring in Detroit. And I bring up Whites because it's usually the case that Whites are better off (usually much better off) than racial minorities in urban settings. Not true for Detroit, however. These are percentages of non-Hispanic Whites over the age of 25 who have earned a college degree or higher.
Atlanta - 76.12%
Oakland - 68.90%
New Orleans - 64.83%
Chicago - 57.32%
Baltimore - 52.08%
Milwaukee - 36.50%
Buffalo - 34.16% Detroit - 26.89%
Raw numbers paint an even bleeker picture. Detroit is only 7.8% non-Hispanic White. There are only 12,000 non-Hispanic Whites in the city of Detroit with a college degree. So for the average White visitor (being honest here...it's the comfort of White people that really matters in these discussions), there isn't much of a Creative Class enclave they can retreat into and avoid the chaos of American urban life. You can do that in Atlanta, New Orleans, Oakland and to a lesser extent Baltimore, but in Detroit that's not even possible.
I love Seattle but I can see why it wouldn't impress some that much.
I really liked Seattle.. Nice urbanity in the core and some good nabe's - really enjoyed the Pike Place Market, Space needle and just driving around the city - beautiful place.. I forgot the name of the Aviation museum there but it was a good one - plus Boeing and Paine fields... It triggered one thing in me that I don't normally say about the cities I visit and that was - I could live here!
The bolded cities are not even close to being in the same category as Detroit. What you're talking about is high crime. There's a difference between a city that has a ton of crime and a city that has a ton of crime and is also economically depressed. We are talking about a city whose population has declined from a peak of 1.85 million in 1950 to 681,000 in 2013.
Just look at how non-Hispanic Whites are faring in Detroit. And I bring up Whites because it's usually the case that Whites are better off (usually much better off) than racial minorities in urban settings. Not true for Detroit, however. These are percentages of non-Hispanic Whites over the age of 25 who have earned a college degree or higher.
Atlanta - 76.12%
Oakland - 68.90%
New Orleans - 64.83%
Chicago - 57.32%
Baltimore - 52.08%
Milwaukee - 36.50%
Buffalo - 34.16% Detroit - 26.89%
Raw numbers paint an even bleeker picture. Detroit is only 7.8% non-Hispanic White. There are only 12,000 non-Hispanic Whites in the city of Detroit with a college degree. So for the average White visitor (being honest here...it's the comfort of White people that really matters in these discussions), there isn't much of a Creative Class enclave they can retreat into and avoid the chaos of American urban life. You can do that in Atlanta, New Orleans, Oakland and to a lesser extent Baltimore, but in Detroit that's not even possible.
We may have disagreed before but I gotta give you props for this. Very well stated indeed. I know Oakland well and you nailed it.
I really liked Seattle.. Nice urbanity in the core and some good nabe's - really enjoyed the Pike Place Market, Space needle and just driving around the city - beautiful place.. I forgot the name of the Aviation museum there but it was a good one - plus Boeing and Paine fields... It triggered one thing in me that I don't normally say about the cities I visit and that was - I could live here!
Yep, triggered that in me too. I love walking from Pikes Place Market up through Olympic Sculpture Park and into Myrtle Edwards Park along Elliot Bay. The Woodland Park Zoo is also very beautiful.
Although Detroit, East St. Louis, and Camden deserve most credit indeed, places like Baltimore, Gary, Newark, New Orleans, Flint, Saginaw, Atlanta, or Oakland also deserve to be mentioned. Even cities with a better reputation like Chicago, Dallas, Las Vegas, or Austin have horrible neighborhoods. They are not even that disappointing, I would consider urban decay and ghettoization at least somewhat interesting.
Have you been to Atlanta?
How is it possible that Atlanta,with one of the highest educational attaimnt average,one of the fastest growing millionaire population,Is Fourth in the world in number of international headquarters,and in the top 10 cities in te U.S. with the fastest growing urban core by percentage from 2011-2012,and by 2020 is projected to be the 7th largest city in the U.S. ahead of Boston just after Miami,Houston and Dallas, somehow have a reputation with cities like Flint,Detroit,Newark and Baltimore? which are loosing population for years and job creation is nill ?Please explain your reasoning.
Atlanta has NO WHERE near the amount of blight or poverty as Detroit or Camden.I have been to both cities and lived not far from Camden for a while so i have seen first hand how bad it is.
How so it it then Las vegas which is still recvering from the recession have a "better" reputation?
And how does New Orleans also get grouped with those cities also when the city is one of the fastest major growing city in the U.S. and its economy is booming?
Are people really saying Detroit is an underrated tourist attraction and being serious about it? Am I actually reading this?
Certainly Detroit is not in the same destination league as the other cities in the poll, but it does have some appeal, both for what's there and, more importantly, as a way to gain an appreciation of what an urban death spiral looks like (and to see glimmers of recovery). As a tourist it's easy to be attracted to the top tier locations. The next couple of tiers down, while not as glamorous, are interesting in their own ways (and less expensive).
Case in point: I had never been to Cleveland, and had "the mistake by the lake" and the image of the river on fire as my reference points. On a whim, and because of a really low fare, I spent 3 days there last September. Visited places great (Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) and small ("A Christmas Story" house) and had lots of interesting conversations with the locals. It was a great visit, and the catalyst for putting "less obvious" cities like Detroit and Buffalo on my list for next year.
Miami. It definitely was not what they show on tv lol. Most of the people are not super models with six packs. In fact, most of the people I encountered were pretty average looking, rude, pushy, and unfriendly. The gulf coast beaches are far more beautiful. Once you get past the high end shopping and luxury hotels, the city just doesn't live up to all the hype. Am I saying I hated it, no. Disappointed? Absolutely.
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which are loosing population for years and job creation is nill ?Please explain your reasoning.
