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Old 03-05-2017, 05:31 AM
 
2,542 posts, read 1,187,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
No. Kaljulaid = good, Putin = bad.

There's only bad guys in that region. Israel tries to represent itself as a liberal democracy, but it is not. It is as violent, as fanatical, as religiously zealous as all the other countries over there.
There's nothing accurate above.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,442,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Why is it not? Israel is really liberal and the crime rate seems pretty low.
Israel might seem so, but despite low crime and high QOL, there's a lot bubbling beneath the surface. What Israeli journalists have said it's more about the mentality, not the actual state structures.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:52 AM
 
2,542 posts, read 1,187,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
The Israelis' hatred for Muslims is equally instilled. Don't get fooled. Israel is like any other Middle-Eastern country; as hateful and messed up as all the others.
This is totally out in deep space. Over 20% of the Israel's population is Muslim. They can become Israeli citizens if they choose. The head of one of Israel's largest hospitals is a Muslim. Those who choose to participate in Israeli society can. It's not a perfect situation, but it's hardly like "any other Middle Eastern country."

Which other Middle Eastern country is like that? There's a good percentage of Copts in Egypt, but they are totally marginalized.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:09 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,252 posts, read 2,445,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
This is totally out in deep space. Over 20% of the Israel's population is Muslim. They can become Israeli citizens if they choose. The head of one of Israel's largest hospitals is a Muslim. Those who choose to participate in Israeli society can. It's not a perfect situation, but it's hardly like "any other Middle Eastern country."

Which other Middle Eastern country is like that? There's a good percentage of Copts in Egypt, but they are totally marginalized.
They don't need to "chose" anything. Israel's muslims are automatic Israeli citizens at birth, with the same rights, privileges and freedoms as Jewish Israelis. And most of them wouldn't have it any other way btw. When a proposal has been floated in the past to redraw the boundary (as part of any future peace agreement) to put some Arab Israeli communities on the Palestinian side of the line, Arab Israelis reacted overwhelmingly against it. They would much rather be part of an Arab minority in a free, democratic, liberal Israel than an Arab majority in what is sure to be just another corrupt, violent and dysfunctional Arab state.

And I wouldn't bother with this Ariete character. He is wildly ignorant and misinformed, obviously agenda-driven, and not particularly interested in real, objective facts. Trying to argue with someone like that is a fool's errand.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,442,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
And I wouldn't bother with this Ariete character. He is wildly ignorant and misinformed, obviously agenda-driven, and not particularly interested in real, objective facts. Trying to argue with someone like that is a fool's errand.
I've seen no real objective stats in this thread.
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Old 03-05-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,252 posts, read 2,445,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
I've seen no real objective stats in this thread.
How about this for an objective stat: Israel, a country that is "as hateful and messed up as all the others in the ME" (your words), still somehow scores a higher HDI than Finland (to say nothing of its Arab neighbors).

You live in Europe -- a continent with a richer history of hate and violence than any other; a continent that turned a blind eye (for the most part) while the Nazis and their friends were murdering Jews by the millions not that long ago. Instead of expending your energy on spewing misinformed garbage against a tiny country of Holocaust survivors that, despite everything, has provided good life for its people (Jews and Arabs alike) and has contributed to the world in myriad ways far more than its fair share, you should perhaps ask why your country's education system is so poor that you think it is "as messed up as all the others". Then maybe you can help pull Finland up a little higher in the HDI ranks.
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 9,704,410 times
Reputation: 4069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
How about this for an objective stat: Israel, a country that is "as hateful and messed up as all the others in the ME" (your words), still somehow scores a higher HDI than Finland (to say nothing of its Arab neighbors).

You live in Europe -- a continent with a richer history of hate and violence than any other; a continent that turned a blind eye (for the most part) while the Nazis and their friends were murdering Jews by the millions not that long ago. Instead of expending your energy on spewing misinformed garbage against a tiny country of Holocaust survivors that, despite everything, has provided good life for its people (Jews and Arabs alike) and has contributed to the world in myriad ways far more than its fair share, you should perhaps ask why your country's education system is so poor that you think it is "as messed up as all the others". Then maybe you can help pull Finland up a little higher in the HDI ranks.
Listen preacher you live in America. Hateful is in your DNA.
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Old 03-05-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,252 posts, read 2,445,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
Listen preacher you live in America. Hateful is in your DNA.

Oh truth hurts, doesn't it. America has had its issues, but at least it and its people have the good sense to support a tiny democracy on the front lines against the scourge of Islamic barbarism -- while you and your twisted ilk continue to lick the boots of those who would chop your head off in a second if they had a chance.
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Old 03-05-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 9,704,410 times
Reputation: 4069
I am against religion. I just don't think you should keep millions of people in an open air prison is all
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:17 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,252 posts, read 2,445,960 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
I am against religion. I just don't think you should keep millions of people in an open air prison is all
Who is in an open prison? Why and since when? How is it the fault of Israel? Do you ask yourself these questions? Do you go back 15-20 years to understand a little bit of the history of the conflict? Or do you just swallow up the braindead, reflexively anti-Israel BS that passes for "reporting" in your media?

If you are referring to Gaza, then try to remember that they also share a border with Egypt and their plight is not as desperate as you think. It would, of course, be a lot better if they weren't led by fanatical madmen who, now that they can no longer send teenage suicide bombers because of the security fence, spend all their resources on digging terrorist tunnels, shooting rockets into Israel and generally doing everything they can to make peaceful co-existence with Israel impossible. Educate yourself. Read something other than the Guardian. And use your brain.
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