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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 56 28.72%
Israel 139 71.28%
Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2021, 01:16 PM
 
14,984 posts, read 23,756,605 times
Reputation: 26468

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
All because of Israel. Only because it benefits Israel. All that other FMF and aid we sent to the other Arab countries is also only because of a peace deal for Israel.
I don't get your logic, the world is supporting Palestine (now that you admit, in a round about way, that your first post was wrong) to benefit Israel? Tell me exactly how that works?

Not that it has worked, militants are still sending rockets over to kill Israeli's, and Israel responds in kind. Other Arab countries moderated in it's relationship with Israel because Israel kicked there butts in every war they have had, not because of any aid. Countries like Egypt have had a strategic partnership with Israel since the early 80s. On the other hand, Palestine is the proxy front for Iran and Syria and it's terrorist support groups in it's battle to destroy Israel.
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Old 07-01-2021, 01:49 PM
 
14,984 posts, read 23,756,605 times
Reputation: 26468
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
4. Isn't Sinai already exclusively a part of Egypt? There are still Jewish settlements there, but aren't those Jewish folks residents of Egypt? And what would Sinai (in Egypt) have to do with Palestinians?
Yes Sinai has been part of Egypt since the 80s. Almost all the Jewish settlements were dismantled.
Egypt probably wants to give it back, they have a tough time maintaining security there. It remains a lawless area, particularly around the border of Palestine/Hamas controlled Gaza Strip.
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Old 07-01-2021, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,874 posts, read 5,538,129 times
Reputation: 21967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
I don't know that Egypt would like a Palestinian controlled Gaza.

"Cairo’s ties with Hamas have at times hung by a thread. Egypt [...] continues to enforce a blockade that has devastated the Gazan economy. Hamas is a militant Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, a political Islamic movement banned in Egypt, and Egypt's pro-government media often depict Hamas as a threat. '

https://abcnews.go.com/International...uence-77803255
Israel vacated the Gaza Strip nearly two decades ago. So whether they like it or not (and they rather don't), Egypt already has a Palestinian-controlled Gaza on its border.
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Old 07-01-2021, 09:53 PM
 
17,877 posts, read 15,723,446 times
Reputation: 11649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I don't get your logic, the world is supporting Palestine (now that you admit, in a round about way, that your first post was wrong) to benefit Israel? Tell me exactly how that works?

Not that it has worked, militants are still sending rockets over to kill Israeli's, and Israel responds in kind. Other Arab countries moderated in it's relationship with Israel because Israel kicked there butts in every war they have had, not because of any aid. Countries like Egypt have had a strategic partnership with Israel since the early 80s. On the other hand, Palestine is the proxy front for Iran and Syria and it's terrorist support groups in it's battle to destroy Israel.
First, there be no Palestinians Crisis if not for the existence of Israel.

Second, it should be solely Israel thats giving its own money to these people. You take over, they become your problem. And no you cannot just genocide them outright especially not after what happened to Jews already. Its all about the optics. Israel, and its support have no talking points anymore.

Instead everyone has to take care of both Israel, and the problems they caused. And LOL about the rockets. Palis not send those rockets, if only Israel do everything it can for them after sticking them all into open air concentration camps. Maybe even if you let the Palestinians into your society more, and try to be more diverse like USA, and now even Europe. Which, by the way, many Jewish organization have helped make that way.

America has its own poor, disenfranchised minorities, and unwanted illegals immigrants. Does USA beg Israel for aid to handle that? And both those groups cause death and destructions. Plus it be pointless to beg Israel for anything because we just receive back our own gifts.

And please dont bring up the Arab representation already in the Israel govt/politics. If Israel integrate more and more of the Gaza, and West Bank, the Arabs have more and more say in politics, and basically make a Jewish Ethnostate impossible. Obviously, Israel cant have that. So whatever Arab citizens, and their rights, and political voice is just for optics.

Thirdly, Israel controls the economics of the Palestinians territories. Any monetary aid the Palis get eventually ends up in the hands of Israel through some angle or another.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...rael-1.7835992

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...urting-economy

https://ypfbd.org/a-brief-analysis-o...-of-palestine/
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,874 posts, read 5,538,129 times
Reputation: 21967
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
First, there be no Palestinians Crisis if not for the existence of Israel.
Seriously, the nerve of that place to exist.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:20 PM
 
17,877 posts, read 15,723,446 times
Reputation: 11649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Seriously, the nerve of that place to exist.
Well it was a narcissistic endeavor, albeit a bold one at that. Creating an ethno-state for yourself always is. Especially when it entails taking land from people. In fact, that is ongoing.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,874 posts, read 5,538,129 times
Reputation: 21967
Well, except they had already been there for some 3,000 years and had also been either expelled from or wiped off the face of virtually every other place on Earth. But, you know, it was just a narcissistic ethno-state project.

Antisemites can be sniffed out from a hundred miles away, even when they try to hide it behind "criticism of Israel."
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Old 07-02-2021, 07:33 AM
 
14,984 posts, read 23,756,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
First, there be no Palestinians Crisis if not for the existence of Israel.
And now your true colors show. Why don't you change your user name to "NJ Hamas 3133"?

Recognizing the existence of Israel is the crux of the problem. Hamas, the ruling authority over Gaza, want the destruction of the state of Israel and, presumably, the citizens within. Do we question the recognition of the United States? The Netherlands? No of course not. Without getting into the historical or legal context of state recognition, 164 UN countries recognize the existence of Israel. Congratulations, your view of non-recognition is shared by such shining examples as North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, and some (not all) Muslim countries.

You can favor one side or the other, but most of us still believe in compromise, both sides giving and getting. Extremist stick to one view. The obstacle to peace in this region is exactly the failure of the ruling bodies in Palestine, and such people as yourself, to recognize Israel as a state. Until we get over that hurdle, long lasting peace will be impossible.
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Old 07-02-2021, 08:53 AM
 
8,175 posts, read 4,258,148 times
Reputation: 11747
I'm giving a passing look to this topic because my late boyfriend of many years (I'm a woman of retired age :-) was a dual citizen of countries of which one was in Europe, and the other one was Israel, so I think I have some slightly informed feelings about the matter. I'm not Jewish myself.

So, I think one part of the problem is that the number of Arabs exiled from Israel in 1948 was about 750,000 (that is probably the top possible estimate), while the number of Palestinians now is over 5,100,000. Their population has grown tremendously, and all those people are pressing for their own country. Pretty much none of them want to hear any mention of a dual government, ie, they want a fully Arabic Palestine, and Israel not to exist.

As the situation in the Balkans had shown, mixing of adversarial populations under one government is a bad idea, and that particular situation got resolved (except for the still ongoing saga of Kosovo) only by the agreement brokered by the US in Dayton, OH to break down the former country into multiple ethnic countries. I think that is the only feasible solution for the Palestine/Israel problem, ie, make the West Bank/Gaza into a separate country of Palestine (which it has de facto been for decades), and leave the rest of Israel as it is as Israel. After gaining sovereignity, Palestinians should understand that they would need to focus on governing their own country, and leave Israel alone (or Israel would naturally continue retaliating and over-retaliating for attacks). I think that is the solution.

That still leaves the matter of Jerusalem, which I think is so historically and religiously significant for so many world populations that it cannot be rightly given to anyone except to the three religions that have had their major traditions linked to Jerusalem for 5,000 or 2,021 or 1,400 years. It should be made into a separate city-state under a tripartite religious government, and maybe under some supervision from the world community.


My 5 cents' worth of international political solutions, from a late-middle-aged woman who isn't all that political, but had happened to grow up in the Balkans, and later had an Israeli boyfriend, and they lived happily ever after in the US for many years (until he had a heart attack, and checked out... )-:

Last edited by elnrgby; 07-02-2021 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 07-06-2021, 08:34 PM
 
565 posts, read 458,658 times
Reputation: 1332
I'm not a big fan of the Scofield Reference Bible.
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