Denali National Park Road Lottery Thread (hotel, campgrounds, rail)

[naturesdreams]

Star... amazing... looks like someone has their car door open... reminds me of Yellowstone and people trying to pose with a wild buffalo... "Get back in your car you Idgit!!"... GEEZ... go figure... great shot though.. I do agree with Blue... I was at Yellowstone and so many people... no control whatsoever and most don't know how to act with wildlife...

I, for one, like the ideal of control but sad if you never win the lottery... that is why you have many friends with their name in the drawing right??

[Newtgirl]

Yellowstone was a nightmare. A friend and I were coming back from San Francisco, and thought we'd swing through since neither of us had been. Traffic congestion EVERYWHERE, people doing idjit things with wildlife (like throwing things at the momma moose to get her to look up at the camera!), litter, garbage, and trash... It made the biologist in me cry.

I can see where NPS wants to keep the park as closed as possible. It's pristine/near pristine in many areas. If you make it difficult for people to get to those pristine areas, they just won't go. That keeps it pristine, unspoiled. And those people that DO go through the trouble of getting to those areas are the types of people who are a lot less likely to leave their trash laying around and do idjit things that bring bears into camp and get eaten and the like. You'll always have your visitors where you just shake your head and wish they'd listen, but by restricting their movements you can keep their impact to a minimum.

If you go letting every slack-jawed yokel and their brother drive through in their 4x4, there is going to be trash all over the place, and it will no longer be pristine; it will be Yellowstone II. Vehicular and horse traffic are the most destructive forms of travel in the outdoors (horses only because of their immense weight causing trail/roadbed damage). Responsible people on foot and bicycle (although bikes are NOT allowed in designated wilderness areas) leave no trace. From a lands management perspective, keeping people out is the only real way to preserve anything. If you want Denali to look that way in 50 years, you shouldn't let cars in.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by Newtgirl

Yellowstone was a nightmare. A friend and I were coming back from San Francisco, and thought we'd swing through since neither of us had been. Traffic congestion EVERYWHERE, people doing idjit things with wildlife (like throwing things at the momma moose to get her to look up at the camera!), litter, garbage, and trash... It made the biologist in me cry.

I can see where NPS wants to keep the park as closed as possible. It's pristine/near pristine in many areas. If you make it difficult for people to get to those pristine areas, they just won't go. That keeps it pristine, unspoiled. And those people that DO go through the trouble of getting to those areas are the types of people who are a lot less likely to leave their trash laying around and do idjit things that bring bears into camp and get eaten and the like. You'll always have your visitors where you just shake your head and wish they'd listen, but by restricting their movements you can keep their impact to a minimum.

If you go letting every slack-jawed yokel and their brother drive through in their 4x4, there is going to be trash all over the place, and it will no longer be pristine; it will be Yellowstone II. Vehicular and horse traffic are the most destructive forms of travel in the outdoors (horses only because of their immense weight causing trail/roadbed damage). Responsible people on foot and bicycle (although bikes are NOT allowed in designated wilderness areas) leave no trace. From a lands management perspective, keeping people out is the only real way to preserve anything. If you want Denali to look that way in 50 years, you shouldn't let cars in.

I think Yellowstone's Probem isn't so much the people, it's the management. They have park police, but when you Drive into Denali, you are met by a ranger who reads you the rules before you go in. When I went into Yellowstone a bunch of years ago, it was pay a fee and go right in, no talk on what you can and can't do like Denali. I wasn't very impressed with the management of the people in Yellowstone at all, the Park Police were more of a metermaid than police.

Going to Yellowstone was no big event, drive in, drive out... They should limit the traffic there as well, so when people that have made some kind of effort to get passage, has a bit of respect for it as well.

At the campground in Yellowstone, the Park Police were going to great lengths to harass some young kids they thought may have pot with them. I really thought is was a taping for the old Andy Griffith show and I was watching Barnie Phife give these guys his once over. The police were so inept, I just got disgusted in just hearing them talk! Half the campgroud's campers were standing around with the same look of disgust on their faces as well.

Yellowstone has been turned into an Amusement park, not a place of wonder!

[NikkiV]

Originally Posted by starlite9

Well the National Parks are suppose to be run by the Govenment and not run for profit to start with, although that is changing.

Having said that, the volunteers are just that, the park service employees are paid whether the park is open or not, the costs are fixed. So throwing extra money on the mix just goes to the federal pot, the park gets to keep none of it, would be nice if it did!

But they make more than the $120,000.00 on Lottery fees, once you win you
Pay another $40.00 for the permit, so that is another $64,000.00 on top of that.

All this is done at the end of the season and really doesn't incurre any additional costs to the Park outside it's normal operation Budget.

So it is a boost to someone!

Well, sort of . . . But not quite. During road lottery, normal staffing is, at least, doubled. From law enforcement, to comm staff, to the rangers that give the tours. Plus, we have additional people and staff on hand to do stuff like provide gas for empty tanks, plug flat tires, and help pull people out of the ditch. Waiting for AAA or a tow is not really an option on tis road.

There are fewer than 100 (96 to be exact) full time permanent park service employees at Denali. The rest are either seasonal and a bunch or really dedicated volunteers.

So, the labor pool isn't as extensive as one may think.

The Yellowstone vs. Denali question vis a vis car access. That bear that came right up to your car, was that near Stony Bridge? The reason our wildlife here isn't as acclimated to human contact is because we are so conservative with our road management plan.

As stated earlier, I honestly prefer the idea of extending the road so that it creates a loop to the stampede trail. One way traffic, with managed access is a great idea. Limit the number of permits available per day so as to avoid a yellowstone debacle, and I think all parties can come out ahead. Increase access to the park, decrease current hazards, a win-win situation if I ever did see one.

Nikki

[ArcticState]

I think DNP is managed just fine, traffic flow included. In fact compared with other National Parks I've visited it is a stellar operation.

[ArcticState]

Originally Posted by GermanyCongress

I won two air plane tickets from universal studios. I know what it feels like to win some type of lottery. Thank the lord.

Bob??

[ShipOfFools42]

LOL. I dunno, his status doesn't jive with being Bob, but maybe that's part of the disguise.

Edit: No, it's gotta be Bob. Check it out.

[starlite9]

Originally Posted by ArcticState

I think DNP is managed just fine, traffic flow included. In fact compared with other National Parks I've visited it is a stellar operation.

It is managed pretty well, there are things that would make it better though, like a one way road that comes out the North side of the Kantishna and comes back to the Stampede Trail. It would double the traffic through the park with no additional impact, no return cars/buses, just one way and out!

[blackzzz01]

Originally Posted by ShipOfFools42

LOL. I dunno, his status doesn't jive with being Bob, but maybe that's part of the disguise.

Edit: No, it's gotta be Bob. Check it out.

No way it's Bob. Most of the posts for GermanyCongress actually make some sense.

[bthorn31]

I bought a couple of lottery tickets this past year - but sadly, did not win. I will try again for next year. In the meantime, I appreciate all the beautiful pictures.