God help us (middle school, closing, dangerous)

[Moose Hollow]

Originally Posted by karfar

This is what happens, I'm using mercury as an example......mercury is dumped into waterways, the fish of course absorb this mercury...then the birds eat the fish, mercury levels are absorbed into the bird...then a mammal eats the bird that ingested that mercury-laden fish...whatever mammal doesn't matter.....then a human eats the mammal that has consumed the bird that consumed the fish that absorbed the mercury. The mercury increases in toxicity as it's absorbed into fat. Sooooo, once humans become a part of this food chain, the mercury levels have risen to an alarming & potentially fatal degree. THIS is why certain chemicals should be banned or highly monitored, for those of you who are so concerned w/humans.

Bravo! Good explanation Karfar!

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Jesus Christ Glitch, did you actually just compare someone with a different view than you to a fascist dictator who was directly responsible for the religious genocide of six million people? Do you have any idea how offensive that is?
I believe that according to Godwin's law, you have just forfeited your argument. Congratulations.

I could think of no other person that was so eager to kill millions of people. MissingAll4Seasons and Hitler's eagerness to slaughter millions of people seems like an appropriate comparison.

[karfar]

Originally Posted by Moose Hollow

Bravo! Good explanation Karfar!

Why thank you, I will now thank UW-Milwaukee for my fine fine education in Conservation/Biology!

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by Glitch

I could think of no other person that was so eager to kill millions of people. MissingAll4Seasons and Hitler's eagerness to slaughter millions of people seems like an appropriate comparison.

I am not interested in nor eager to SLAUGHTER anyone, much less millions of people. Again, what I said is, these people are dying of NATURAL CAUSES (i.e. natural diseases like malaria) and perhaps we just need to accept that as nature's form of population control. The malaria problem has been ongoing in this area since pretty much since the beginning of history (http://www.malariasite.com/MALARIA/History.htm - broken link). The only reasons why the numbers are so high now is that the population has increased -- the percentage of deaths has actually remained fairly constant over time. Therefore, it seems unreasonable and irresponsible to KILL (yes, this time it is killing because it is intentional) numerous less-populated species through inappropriate human intervention. It is unfortunate, and I do feel for the people who are losing their children to these diseases; but I still cannot advocate the use of DDT because, while it may help temporarily, we are probably going to make the situation worse in the long run.

Originally Posted by MalariaSite.com

The human populations in sub-Saharan Africa changed from a low-density and mobile hunting and gathering life-style to communal living in settlements cleared in the tropical forest. This new, man-made environment led to an increase in the numbers and densities of humans on the one hand and generated numerous small water collections close to the human habitations on the other. This led to an increase in the mosquito population and the mosquitoes in turn had large, stable, and accessible sources of blood in the human population, leading to very high anthropophily and great efficiency of the vectors of African malaria. Even though the practice of agriculture had developed throughout the tropics and subtropics of Asia and the Middle East up to several thousand years before those in Africa, simultaneous animal domestication in Asia probably prevented the mosquitoes from developing exclusive anthropophilic habits. In most parts of the world, the anthropophilic index (the probability of a blood meal being on a human) of the vectors of malaria is much less than 50% and often less than 10 to 20%, but in sub-Saharan Africa, it is 80 to almost 100%. This is probably the most important single factor responsible for the stability and intensity of malaria transmission in tropical Africa today.
Malaria Site: History of Malaria Parasite And Its Global Spread (http://www.malariasite.com/MALARIA/history_parasite.htm - broken link)

Now, as someone who has visited Auschwitz, Dachau, and several other smaller camps in Germany and go to see all up close and personal-like the extreme horror the Nazi regime perpetrated against humanity I can honestly say that 1) I am offended that you would make such a comparison; 2) you have a complete misunderstanding of the subject matter; and 3) your position more accurately aligns with fascism than mine.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

Jesus Christ Glitch, did you actually just compare someone with a different view than you to a fascist dictator who was directly responsible for the religious genocide of six million people? Do you have any idea how offensive that is?
I believe that according to Godwin's law, you have just forfeited your argument. Congratulations.

Thanks Xa'at for reminding me of Godwin's Law. The whole Hitler/Nazi thing is the fallback attack of all debaters who find themselves unable to adequately support their position or refute the other person's. I'm failry egalitarian in all aspects of life, doesn't matter to me whether it's people, plants or animals... which is, pretty much, the farthest you can get from fascism without actually being a liberal

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by karfar

This is what happens, I'm using mercury as an example......mercury is dumped into waterways, the fish of course absorb this mercury...then the birds eat the fish, mercury levels are absorbed into the bird...then a mammal eats the bird that ingested that mercury-laden fish...whatever mammal doesn't matter.....then a human eats the mammal that has consumed the bird that consumed the fish that absorbed the mercury. The mercury increases in toxicity as it's absorbed into fat. Sooooo, once humans become a part of this food chain, the mercury levels have risen to an alarming & potentially fatal degree. THIS is why certain chemicals should be banned or highly monitored, for those of you who are so concerned w/humans.

And heres' another example, this time for downstream extinction, for those concerned with humans.

Let's say, for whatever reason, that some feeder fishes (like shrimp, herring, etc) goes extinct. Now the salmon have reduced food source, so many of them do not survive to spawn. Since the salmon spawn is reduced, the bears don't get enough food and the salmon population is further reduced. Since the bears don't have enough salmon to eat, they are forced to forage in human areas - leading to increased human attacks/multilations/deaths and even possibly the predation of humans. Next year rolls around and even less salmon return to spawn (lower numbers and still lower amounts of food), but this time the bears start to die out. Now we have to worry about the wolves increasing in population because the bears aren't there to control them through food competition. So there goes the large unguate population... which means no moose for you this year! I could go on... but I think I've made my point.

Karfar - have you read anything on Deep Ecology? It's pretty much global ecospheric egalitarianism. While I don't agree with the more extreme view that humans are less important than other species, I do agree with many of their other tenets and assumptions.

[karfar]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

Karfar - have you read anything on Deep Ecology? It's pretty much global ecospheric egalitarianism. While I don't agree with the more extreme view that humans are less important than other species, I do agree with many of their other tenets and assumptions.

No, I haven't yet. What alot of people don't understand is the "circle of life". Everything has its place & there's a reason for it. If us humans would understand where we are in this & how we can sustain us & other life instead of ravaging it, everything would equal out. Sigh.....it just saddens me when people don't understand that. I mentioned before that I wish people were required to take at least one conservation class in college, I really think it would help in the long run. I now leave you all w/this.....this is a great song to just blast w/the windows open & singing your heart out!!!!

YouTube - Lion King - Circle of Life

[Classic Satch]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

And heres' another example, this time for downstream extinction, for those concerned with humans.

Let's say, for whatever reason, that some feeder fishes (like shrimp, herring, etc) goes extinct. Now the salmon have reduced food source, so many of them do not survive to spawn. Since the salmon spawn is reduced, the bears don't get enough food and the salmon population is further reduced. Since the bears don't have enough salmon to eat, they are forced to forage in human areas - leading to increased human attacks/multilations/deaths and even possibly the predation of humans. Next year rolls around and even less salmon return to spawn (lower numbers and still lower amounts of food), but this time the bears start to die out. Now we have to worry about the wolves increasing in population because the bears aren't there to control them through food competition. So there goes the large unguate population... which means no moose for you this year! I could go on... but I think I've made my point.

Karfar - have you read anything on Deep Ecology? It's pretty much global ecospheric egalitarianism. While I don't agree with the more extreme view that humans are less important than other species, I do agree with many of their other tenets and assumptions.

Radical eco-nuts like yourself scare the hell out of me. You actually believe the bilge that you're shoveling and that's frightening. Glitch has been 100% correct in his assessments and I cannot truly fathom those who put the well-being of any animal over that of human beings. There is no justification for such an attitude....period. Of course, seeing as you hail from the well-spring of insane urban liberalism, I shouldn't be surprised.

[Xa'at]

Classic-
Closed minded neocons like yourself scare the hell out of me. You actually believe the garbage that you're shoveling and that's frightening. MissingAll4Seasons has been 100% correct in her assessments and I cannot truly fathom those who tout the belief that conscious thought makes one more important in the scheme of things. There is no justification for such an attitude....period. Of course, seeing as you have shown no sign of conscious thought yourself, I shouldn't be surprised.

Gonna call me me a nazi now too?

[Rance]

You know...there are already dead spots in the Pacific. Humans depend greatly on the oceans for food and climate. If the oceans die...we die. It's pretty basic stuff. Not only do all creatures deserve to live on this planet as much as we do...it's essential that most of them do...or we can kiss our own butts goodbye.

And you can disagree without resorting to name calling.