What "due respect" is owed religion and religionists? (Judaism, science)
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I was referring to the "connection to Judaism." Judaism is not the same as being Jewish.
I assume you mean "Nobel prizes" as well. Always that and never any mention of the more infamous accomplishments like the most epic securities swindle known to man. Funny how this always works...
Thanks for correcting the spelling. I am not a native speaker.
I've always been a little puzzled by this "connection to Judaism based on culture, community and ethnic identity." I suppose I have a similar connection to Catholicism because my ethnic identity is Italian and I was raised a Catholic. A Catholic mother and so on, but I don't have anything to do with the Catholic church.
We're both atheists, but I'm not too sure I understand how or why Jewish atheists always seem to claim a similar "connection to Judaism" like you do.
The big distinction here is that your ethnicity is Italian. While Italians are historically and remain predominantly Roman Catholic (whether observantly or only nominally), and Catholicism certainly has influenced Italian culture, the Italian people long predate Catholicism, and Christianity for that matter, and much (probably even most) of Italian culture stands independent of Catholicism.
Judaism is not just a religion, like Roman Catholicism, but also a culture, community, and ethnic identity, just like Italians. Certainly, there are Jewish ethnic divisions around the world with broadly varying traditions. A Yemeni Jew may not have a whole lot in common, from a superficial standpoint, with an Ashkenazi Jew, but the same could also be said between Calabrians and Lombardi.
Of course, it boils down to the fact that Jews have historically practiced endogamy, with a very strict belief that one is not Jewish unless one has a Jewish mother or one has undergone the intensive learning necessary to undergo conversion. According to 23andMe, I’m over 98% Ashkenazi Jewish, and my maternal haplogroup suggests that I descend from an unbroken line of Jewish women dating back to one of the four “founding mothers” of Ashkenazi Jewry—likely Southern European women who converted and married men of Levantine origin.
Short of converting to another religion, even the most staunchly religious and extreme Haredim will see me as Jewish no matter what I do. They may not care for my life choices, and might even call me a Jewish Goy, but I’m a Jew in their eyes all the same. Even more so, I’m a Jew in the eyes of the rest of the world no matter what I do. I don’t believe in God, and I don’t care much for purely ritualistic endeavors like regularly attending Shabbat and Havdalah services, but I love getting together for Passover Seders, or Purim festivals, or Chanukah celebrations, and once we’re no longer living in Pandemica, I’ll probably do some men’s club events at my synagogue to get to meet new people and possibly make new friends and business contacts.
My ancestors came from places like Austria-Hungary, Romania, Poland, and the Russian Empire, but the Austrians, Romanians, Poles, Russians, and just about everyone else in Europe, and the world, has made clear that I am not an Austrian, or Romanian, or Pole, or Russian. I am a Jew. I can love it, hate it, or feel indifferent about it, but it doesn’t change who I am. Certainly, I am an American, and (generally) proud to wear that badge, but I’m not of indigenous descent, so I can’t claim that label in good faith alone.
If you don’t know many Jewish people, this may be difficult to understand. I’m not saying that in a snide or sarcastic way, just to be clear. It can be quite counterintuitive, because Judaism is unique in that regard among major western religions. I hope this explanation helps, and that even if you don’t quite understand it, you can at least respect it.
Thanks for correcting the spelling. I am not a native speaker.
If that’s the case, then I will not tease you for spelling or grammar mistakes—and apologize to the extent that I have previously done so.
I disagree with and criticize most of the things you say, but I can’t hold the fact that English is not your first language against you. You deserve better than that.
I assume you mean "Nobel prizes" as well. Always that and never any mention of the more infamous accomplishments like the most epic securities swindle known to man. Funny how this always works...
I did NOT see this before. I hope this is just a bad joke that’s fallen flat, and not a statement in earnest, because I would find that incredibly concerning.
The big distinction here is that your ethnicity is Italian. While Italians are historically and remain predominantly Roman Catholic (whether observantly or only nominally), and Catholicism certainly has influenced Italian culture, the Italian people long predate Catholicism, and Christianity for that matter, and much (probably even most) of Italian culture stands independent of Catholicism.
Judaism is not just a religion, like Roman Catholicism, but also a culture, community, and ethnic identity, just like Italians. Certainly, there are Jewish ethnic divisions around the world with broadly varying traditions. A Yemeni Jew may not have a whole lot in common, from a superficial standpoint, with an Ashkenazi Jew, but the same could also be said between Calabrians and Lombardi.
Of course, it boils down to the fact that Jews have historically practiced endogamy, with a very strict belief that one is not Jewish unless one has a Jewish mother or one has undergone the intensive learning necessary to undergo conversion. According to 23andMe, I’m over 98% Ashkenazi Jewish, and my maternal haplogroup suggests that I descend from an unbroken line of Jewish women dating back to one of the four “founding mothers” of Ashkenazi Jewry—likely Southern European women who converted and married men of Levantine origin.
Short of converting to another religion, even the most staunchly religious and extreme Haredim will see me as Jewish no matter what I do. They may not care for my life choices, and might even call me a Jewish Goy, but I’m a Jew in their eyes all the same. Even more so, I’m a Jew in the eyes of the rest of the world no matter what I do. I don’t believe in God, and I don’t care much for purely ritualistic endeavors like regularly attending Shabbat and Havdalah services, but I love getting together for Passover Seders, or Purim festivals, or Chanukah celebrations, and once we’re no longer living in Pandemica, I’ll probably do some men’s club events at my synagogue to get to meet new people and possibly make new friends and business contacts.
My ancestors came from places like Austria-Hungary, Romania, Poland, and the Russian Empire, but the Austrians, Romanians, Poles, Russians, and just about everyone else in Europe, and the world, has made clear that I am not an Austrian, or Romanian, or Pole, or Russian. I am a Jew. I can love it, hate it, or feel indifferent about it, but it doesn’t change who I am. Certainly, I am an American, and (generally) proud to wear that badge, but I’m not of indigenous descent, so I can’t claim that label in good faith alone.
If you don’t know many Jewish people, this may be difficult to understand. I’m not saying that in a snide or sarcastic way, just to be clear. It can be quite counterintuitive, because Judaism is unique in that regard among major western religions. I hope this explanation helps, and that even if you don’t quite understand it, you can at least respect it.
You too are blurring this line between Judaism and being Jewish...
I've never known Judaism to be anything other than a religion. Look up the definition of Judaism, and I think you'll see what I mean. So to go from Judaism to being Jewish like you do with the rest of your comment is a bit off the rails. I am fully aware of all you write about Jewish people. About Judaism, however, I believe your understanding is not correct.
Shall we go back and count the number of times you've posted about "cultural christianity"?
That is like asking an atheist how often he posts about atheism in this forum. Atheism is a thing just as cultural christianity is a thing. I do not know why you complain! You admitted to put a Xmas tree every year. I bet you know more Christian Hymns than I do. You are a very spiritual man, no doubt.
And of course, I don't expect people at a funeral to bring up the bad things of the deceased. Better in some cases to just not have eulogies.
I wrote and gave my brother's eulogy. Just came across it recently while going through some papers. I wasn't going to sugarcoat him. I had them laughing and then I had them crying. Even the people who loved him most knew what a cranky SOB he could be.
I did NOT see this before. I hope this is just a bad joke that’s fallen flat, and not a statement in earnest, because I would find that incredibly concerning.
That all of us tend to highlight the good about ourselves and not the negatives? Concerning perhaps, but it's just the fact. Human nature.
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I am not a native speaker.
